Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Iran Forever , I'm familiar with the ATCA site , I beg to differ from your expressed views that the T/Cs are first and foremost Turkish then Cypriots . I stated much earlier that because of my business , I have the opportunity here in the UK to have daily contacts with both T/Cs , Turkish , and Kurds . I find the T/Cs to be totally different from either the Turks or the Kurds .It doesn't mean of course that this is the same in Cyprus.
On this forum since I joined last April I have been banging the drum of Cyprus and criticised any postings by Cypriots who displayed foreign Greek or Turkish flags as their avatar.
I can mention those T/Cs who I believe are committed Cypriots first , Sadik , Pasha , mrfrong , cyperzokily ,
and yes , Viewpoint as well .With the exception of a very small number the majority are firstly Cypriots .
Having been estranged from "main stream Cyprus" for over 30 years it is perfectly understandable that they only have Turkey to look for an International identity since their "TRNC" is not a recognised nation.
The unswayable position of Turkey is the predominant reason of the T/Cs isolation from the International community.
There are very few countries who totally support the die-hard stand of Turkey , amongst them of course the USA and Britain who support Turkey purely for their own interests and as a reward for Turkey's solid support for Israel (the only Muslim nation that supports Israel ).
Turkey has a struggle ahead in it's efforts to join the EU , and those that delude them selves that Turkey doesn't care whether it joins or not are absolutely out of their minds. Turkey has been fighting to join Europe since the father of modern Turkey instilled this idea into all modern forward looking Turks.
And join Europe it must . And the Cyprus issue will be solved without one community selling itself to the other.

[Kikapu]

Turkey has been fighting to join Europe since the father of modern Turkey instilled this idea into all modern forward looking Turks.
And join Europe it must . And the Cyprus issue will be solved without one community selling itself to the other.

My friend Miltiades,

It is true, that it has been Turkeys desire to join the EU as longs as any other nation, but Turkey does not control it's own destiny when it comes to EU. There have been demands put on Turkey as a pre-condition that were not on some of the other nations. Other nations political and economic conditions were viewed with a blind eye. When the EU keeps moving the goal post each time Turkey gets close to it, with the earliest predictions being kicked around to be in the next 10-15 years, you may try to understand, that perhaps the EU does not want Turkey to be in the "Christian EU Club".

If you haven't been invited by a family member, or a friend for dinner for a few years, chances are, you're not going to be anytime soon, or they even want to invite you at all. I know I got you going with my "ROC being the Trojan Horse" post couple of weeks ago, but if you look at it closely, Cyprus is being used by EU, to find more reasons as not to let Turkey in. You may already know my position, in that, Turkey does not need to be in the EU, she just needs the benefits from it, and then everyone will be happy with one exception, the ROC. After all the grandstanding and all the posturing and all the power playing and all the other all the's, RoC would have used up it's usefulness with the EU, and will be brushed aside, once the "special agreement" are signed between EU and Turkey. Everyone would walk away as a winner, without a solution to Cyprus.

When people ask the question, "is Turkey willing to keep Cyprus over losing EU", I think the question is misplaced. The question that should be asked is " is the EU and the USA willing to lose Turkey over Cyprus". We are at a "is the glass half full or half empty" situation, and I believe, the EU will walk away from the Cyprus problem as a condition on signing the "special agreement" with Turkey to drop it's application to apply to be a EU member. Don't think for a moment, that Turkey will not be making demands also from the EU and the USA. In time unless a solution is found, the USA will recognize the TRNC along with the UN, since they already see the ROC as part of the problem for a solution, and the EU will trade with the TRNC economically, if not full recognition, despite protests from the ROC.

The ROC can avoid most of the concerns of my fellow Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus by either making a deal with them that they cannot refuse, or set them free to be on their own. If the TC's cannot get the security and fair deal that they need, then they rather be on their own. If power play and posturing is the ROC's way to show Turkey and the rest of the world, what a tiny nation of Cyprus can do, it's going to end up sitting in the corner of the EU's great halls, playing only with it's own marbles.

[Kikapu]

You know that a Turkey without a EU perspective and the "RoC" with no EU leverage will mean TCs will and the north will be gradually absorbed and annexed to Turkey. Which ever way we TCs turn the ends of the stick are both shitty. At least this side is how do they say it better the devil you know and have forged strong relations with over the last 46 years, the other side is a unknown, leap into the darkness. (There are even people in the south preparing for war and just a weak moment in time to attack us in our beds)

Viewpoint,

I think you have read the situation very well. If I was living along side you today, I would be thinking the same way. All you're asking is a fair and secure life for your community for generations, and not until the next mass murderer is elected, which would mean all deals are off, much like the 1960 constitution. I have made this suggestion before without much feedback from those that want to unify Cyprus, and that is, if the TC's can't get decent power sharing with the GC's, then the TC's should control the whole of the security of Cyprus with it's military. Then you would have a majority GC's administration to run the peoples business, and the minority TC's to run the peoples security. The two will safeguard against the other, with both sides getting what they want. If the GC's want the TC's to trust them, it's about time the GC's start trusting the TC's to protect their security. Is there anyone that is against this arrangement ??

[miltiades]

YES , KIKAPU , the 82 % of Cypriots who do not trust , why should they , Turkey.
Let Turkey give

[miltiades]

YES , KIKAPU , the 82 % of Cypriots who do not trust Turkey , why should they ?
Are you seriously implying that the majority of Cypriots will accept a solution based on Turkey looking after our security , I don't think so , after all the Kurds don't want to be part of Turkey , and Turkey's human rights record is abysmal.

[Kikapu]

YES , KIKAPU , the 82 % of Cypriots who do not trust Turkey , why should they ?
Are you seriously implying that the majority of Cypriots will accept a solution based on Turkey looking after our security , I don't think so , after all the Kurds don't want to be part of Turkey , and Turkey's human rights record is abysmal.

Miltiades,

Respectfully, you're barking at the wrong tree. I said TC's ( Turkish Cypriots) to be in charge of security. If solution is found, Turkey won't be there to kick around anymore. So now, what do you think of this suggestion.??

[sadik]

My dear Militiades, I know I have no business saying this to you as a non-Cypriot, but from what I've seen from Turkish Cypriots (check out their website atcanews.org, click on Thoughts/Ideas (on Cyprus), then click on ATCA Noticeboard and read each posting carefully), they are now possessed by this pan-Turkism and Mother Turkey stuff which has eroded any sense they have left of being Cypriots first. True, some Turkish Cypriots may see themselves as Cypriots first, but the majority of them have not allowed their Turkishness to be subsumed or superceded by their "Cypriotness". They are Turks first as far as they are concerned.
"We are all Cypriots" might make nice lyrics for a peace song, but in the real world, it doesn't quite hold.

Iran Forever, I have just visited the Hizbullah web site. Since visiting just one web site makes us an expert on a whole nation, can I just conclude that all Iranians are suicidal fanatics trying the destroy themselves and the whole world with them? Would that be correct? I don't think so.

[miltiades]

Sadik , very well said , in fact I as you may know I have made a number of posts highly critical of the theocratic regime in Iran , and like you , I don't hold all Iranians as fanatics.
Sadic , I asked Viewpoint earlier , would he meet me for a drink when I'm next in Cyprus , he declined , and I wonder if we could meet sometime towards the end of July , I was hoping to ask amongst others Alexis , Bananiot , Kifeas and Piratis , just a handshake and a friendly chat without politics as one Cypriot to another.

[ricco]

Kifeas, we Iranians would love to join you Greeks in an alliance against Turkey. A Russian-Iranian-Armenian-Greek alliance is my dream. Turkey and Azerbaijan have done nothing but export their pan-Turkism (pan-Turdism), pan-Turanism, and Bozkurt ideology to Iran's ethnic Azerbaijanis, creating unrest in our northern provinces. We support Cypriot Greeks and Armenians. Azerbaijan, Turkey's little sister, has done nothing but make trouble for Iran, inciting Azerbaijanis in northern Iran, all with the goal of turning northern Iran into part of a Greater Azerbaijan. Baku regime continues to refer to northern Iran as "South Azerbaijan Province".

Well, keep on dreaming. if I were you I'd try to deal with iranian government which rules you with funny islamic fundementals instead of Turkey and when it comes to azerbaijan, %25 of the Entire Azerbaijan is occupied by armenia! what the heck are you talking about?

[ricco]

Let me report you about the situation from istanbul.

it's crystal clear like the azure sky of the deepest summer that Turkey won't be giving up TRONC when it comes to EU negotiations and opening its ports to Cyprus.

There are lots of parameters about this issue:

First of all according to several polls, public support for joining EU is melting day by day in entire Turkey. Last results show that only %20 of Turkish people supports joining the club(!) some of the main reasons are:

1) Even member countires can't see EU's future. So why should we try that hard for something which is not certain and will take place in decades?

2) EU's hypocritical behaviors. EU did nothing she promised about TRONC before voting for Annan plan.

3) EU declares that every candidate should solve its problems with their neigbouring countries. So why did she accept a country with a major problem (Cyprus) as a member?

and so on... (I'd like to remind you that these are not my personal approach.)

Ongoing EU negotiations caused the rise of nationalism in Turkey. Sorry to say that but it's quite understandable. AKP government will quit negotiating without a second thought if it comes to opening its ports to cyprus for continue negotiating without anything in return such as, let's say weaking the restrictions on TRONC or promises that EU made earlier.

Although it seems like international politics, in fact it's more about national politics. Elections are on the way AKP government won't be able to explain this neither to its supporters nor to someone else who will be voting next year.

On the other hand, we all should try to see the big picture. Years ahead will be dominated all kind of natural resources issues. especially petroluem, natural gas and water and Turkey will be the center of it for sure. Within few years Turkey will be the center for transmitting energy resources of Russia, Iran, Azerbeijan and Kazakhistan. no need to say that EU is the biggest client. I say hear you say "So what?". Turkey and AKP govrnment finally is able to see that becoming a EU member is not the only role in this play. (National dynamics of Turkey already proved that an islamic regime for the near future is not an option at all nor desired). Russia wants to by-pass ex-soviet nations surrounding it while transmitting its energy resources since they ass-licking US of A for awhile.

So simply AKP can decide to go on its way without EU when it comes to Cyprus issue. it has to be this way if they want to exist after next elections. But the question is will EU give up on Turkey with all of its benefits over tiny Cyprus? Come on, its simple math! For hypocrite EU neither so called human rights violations nor culture and religion are serious problems. ( By the way, what did EU do for its members-let's say poland-involved with illegal CIA actions against so called war on terroism?) well,it's all about the economics. if EU wants to be a global player along with USA, China, Russia and even India (which seems impossible right now) it is about young work force, bigger population, bigger virgin markets, new borders to even bigger markets and easy access to energy resources. Otherwise, rich playground of EU will be starting to fade way within 20 years without expansion and I don't think that the term expansion has nothing to do with new members like crotia.

That's why bigger nations like UK is optimist about Turkey's membership since they know from their experiences of the last centuries that it really is about economics while absurdly nationalist and poor France and small nation of Austria are against it.

EU may give up on Turkey over cyprus, of course not because of she wants it but she has to. Like every major strategist around the globe have been writing since the very beginning of the negotiations, it wouldn't be the smartest thing to leave Turkey outside forever.


Greetings from beautiful Istanbul