Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bill]

Bill, can you please provide the source of your claim that holiday villas were built on Turkish Cypriot land in the south, because I am not aware of such a case?

Except for for an instance in Paphos a few years ago ( which was dealt with by the authorities ) as far as I know NO holiday villa's have been built on TC land in the ROC- and that wasn't what I stated.

Bill

[Antreis]

I agree, arresting that Architect is perfectly justified, end of story.
Now any other TC architect will think twice before taking a job.
Its a good demostration for others.

Next stage, pubic decapitation

The only thing that this kind of behavior will achieve is further alienate the TCs and the GCs from each other. The problem in Cyprus is not a problem of criminal law and it is not a problem between individuals. The fact of the matter is that there are 40000 Turkish troops in the north, and Papadopoulos can do NOTHING about this, neither he has the desire to do anything about it, and he decides to go after individual TCs as if it's their fault. What is next? Am I also going to be arrested the next time I visit my GC friends, because I sold a case of diet coke and beer to business construction workers?

The only thing that can effectively stop the construction on the GC property is a solution. And there is no hope in that area. For gods sake, it will have taken 2 years for Papadopoulos to meet Talat over a cup of cofee, if the meeting takes place today. What are we supposed to do as TCs? Wait for another 30 years, until the GCs come to terms with their unwillingless to share anything with the TCs, and accept to live in poverty indefinetly so that we "keep our motivation for a solution".

The only outcome of this kind of developments will be that the TCs will stop using the Larnaka airport and they will stop shopping at Marks and Spencer. This is the achievement they are after?

The problem is very complex and includes violations of the common criminal law as well.If you sell stolen beer , stolen Coca Colas and "smuggled" coke then you should be arrested as well.If you help and condone such illegal activities then you should get arrested.If you collaborate with criminals in criminal activities you should also get arrested.Even if a solution to the Cyprus problem is found all those criminals should still be liable to the law.

Regards.

P.S. Smuggling and particularly smuggling drugs in the occupied areas does not seem to be considered illegal as in the rest of the world. Actually smuggling is considered a perfectly normal and commendable business practice.Therefore i included the word smuggling in quotes.

[Viewpoint]

I think we also have to consider the thousands of houses built on Turkish land in the ROC and I'm not talking about the refugee estates built post 1974 .

I'm talking villa style houses built in the last 4 years where the government has given a portion of TC land and a small grant / payment towards the building of a house -- which is still theft and exploiting TC owned land.

Some of these houses are bigger and better than I could ever afford to buy -- ok they will never have the title deeds but I can't see them being knocked down either.

Is it ok then for the builders and architects of these properties to be arrested if they cross over to the occupied part.

Bill, can you please provide the source of your claim that holiday villas were built on Turkish Cypriot land in the south, because I am not aware of such a case?

I think it is also proper to let you know that the (maximum) use of TC land in the south by the RoC, for the construction of all types of legitimate projects (infrastructure or refugee housing) doesn't exceed 1/2 percent (0.5%) of all the TC land in the south. The total of the TC land in the south is less than 1/3 of all the GC land in the occupied north, but in terms of real estate value (both values constant and based on the south prices,) is less than 1/6. The real estate value of the GC owned land in the area north of Kyrenia mountains (along the north coast and from the sea to the north mountain slopes) represents only about 4% of all the GC land in the north, but in terms of real estate value it represents more than 15% of the total real estate value of GC land in the north. Nearly all these GC land in the above said area has been usurped and been developed by the TCs and other foreigners, and alone it is almost equal to the total real estate value of all the TC land in the south. If we include the coast line areas north of Famagusta which represent another 10% of the total GC real estate value in the north, and which have nearly all been affected, were are we going? The TCs have usurped and developed land in the north which has already exceeded the total value of TC land in the south.

And what are you doing?

You are trying to make an issue, and trying give the impression of equivalence of practices between the two sides, when in the south we have used only half percent of the TC land in the south and where even if we ever use the 100% of the TC land in the south, it will still be quite less in terms of value than what the TCs have already used in the north (and they are still going on.)

What you are doing is basically to add insult to injury with your comments!

Goes without saying there is more GCs land in the north so naturally any growth will absorb GC disputed land. The TCs are only using land they have exchange with the TRNC, so your target should be them not individuals. The arrest of the architect has already started the chants of its not safe to go south you will be arrested as the majority of TCs have had something to do in thei life times with GC land, eg sell buy build etc. You need to arrest everyone that comes accross the border as they have all directly or indirectly benefited from the sale and purchase of GC land.

[Bill]

And what are you doing?

You are trying to make an issue, and trying give the impression of equivalence of practices between the two sides,
What you are doing is basically to add insult to injury with your comments!

No I'm not trying give the impression of equivalence of practices between the two sides.

I just asked a simple question -- why TC land is given to Greek Cypriots to build villa's on in the last 4 years when the government said it would not do so -- except of course for refugee housing post 1974 I can't see a reason for this .

And no I'm not adding insult to injury I'm just stating a fact.

There is no comparison in the south to the way that GC land has been abused and used in the north.

Bill

[miltiades]

Sadik , until such time that both communities appreciate each others reluctance to go forward we will not achieve much.The Annan plan formed the basis for a solution but it was flawed from the start. It was not a reunification plan and it dealt with curent divisions becoming enshrined in the new constitution disregarding totally the concerns of one side , the GC , on majority issues and supporters of the plan stated that guarantees were available by the UN for the implementation of the agreement.WRONG. No such guarantees existed.What the plan called for was" UN monitors the implementation of the agreement " The definition of MONITOR and GUARANTY , are distinctly different .One observes , the other ensures .
As far as the majority / minority issue is concerned , since the Annan plan concentrated so much on this , it is perfectly understandable , I'm sure you will agree , THAT THE GCs JUSTIFIABLY WOULD RESENT THE FACT THAT
the 18% would have an equal police number in the forces, as well as in many other spheres.Now I dont give a damn if 99% of the police force is T/C , but Im damned if I'm going to walk into a police station in my country with the FOREIGN FLAG OF TURKEY FLYING. Precisely what the Annan plan allowed each community to do. Where the fuck did the reunification bullshit come from.It was nothing of the sort and I have on another tread challenged anyone to prove this absurd notion .
As always the true owners of Cyprus were ignored . We are Cypriots .

[Socrates]

Sadik , until such time that both communities appreciate each others reluctance to go forward we will not achieve much.The Annan plan formed the basis for a solution but it was flawed from the start. It was not a reunification plan and it dealt with curent divisions becoming enshrined in the new constitution disregarding totally the concerns of one side , the GC , on majority issues and supporters of the plan stated that guarantees were available by the UN for the implementation of the agreement.WRONG. No such guarantees existed.What the plan called for was" UN monitors the implementation of the agreement " The definition of MONITOR and GUARANTY , are distinctly different .One observes , the other ensures .

The UN Security Council have made a voting about the security of the implementation and our side (Papadopoulos – Iakovou) with the help of Russians destroyed that effort.

As far the road in your other post is minus importance.

The administration of the roads can’t be otherwise in a BBFederation now the ownership mayby it could but is a minus importance issue in front of the size of our problem.

I don’t know much about the government property issue I’ll study that part to see.

As far as the majority / minority issue is concerned , since the Annan plan concentrated so much on this , it is perfectly understandable , I'm sure you will agree , THAT THE GCs JUSTIFIABLY WOULD RESENT THE FACT THAT
the 18% would have an equal police number in the forces, as well as in many other spheres. Now I dont give a damn if 99% of the police force is T/C , but I’m damned if I'm going to walk into a police station in my country with the FOREIGN FLAG OF TURKEY FLYING.

I didn’t know this and I’m not sure about it.

Who this can happen?

The flags unfortunately will be allowed, in RoC houses the most flags are Greek.

But in police stations or any other government building is unacceptable to have Greek or Turkish flag.

[sadik]

The flags unfortunately will be allowed, in RoC houses the most flags are Greek.

But in police stations or any other government building is unacceptable to have Greek or Turkish flag.

I think what Miltiades was talking about was the flags of the component states. Under the plan, each state would also have a flag of its own, which could be the flags of Greece and Turkey as well. I agree that it would be very absurd.

[Socrates]

The problem is very complex and includes violations of the common criminal law as well.If you sell stolen beer , stolen Coca Colas and "smuggled" coke then you should be arrested as well.If you help and condone such illegal activities then you should get arrested.If you collaborate with criminals in criminal activities you should also get arrested.Even if a solution to the Cyprus problem is found all those criminals should still be liable to the law.

Unfortunately this cases can’t judged by as or the TRNC the only valid way to stop this thefts is the ECHR but I’m afraid what if they will manage to prove what this fake commission is doing her job then will we not be able to stop anyone and they will manage to legalize this illegalities.

The only legal way to stop the building orgasm (I use the term orgasm to bring back some good memories for my godfather Miltiades) is to prove the fakeness of that commission.

We should (or we may consider after some years if this situation continues) consider to mass attack that commission to prove their fakeness because our legal weapons are very restricted.

Actually this is not my opinion is something I’ve read from an expert to international laws.

[Kifeas]

And what are you doing?

You are trying to make an issue, and trying give the impression of equivalence of practices between the two sides,
What you are doing is basically to add insult to injury with your comments!

No I'm not trying give the impression of equivalence of practices between the two sides.

I just asked a simple question -- why TC land is given to Greek Cypriots to build villa's on in the last 4 years when the government said it would not do so -- except of course for refugee housing post 1974 I can't see a reason for this .

And no I'm not adding insult to injury I'm just stating a fact.

There is no comparison in the south to the way that GC land has been abused and used in the north.

Bill

Which fact are you stating Bill?

You are just making a general allegation that TC land in the north has been GIVEN to G/Cs in the last 4 years to build villas. This is simply not possible under the existing RoC legal framework. Furthermore, I am following the press daily and I am not aware of any such a case, in the way you describe it!

I am indeed aware that there were cases of fraudulent attempts by GC individuals to usurp TC land from the authorities, with the use of fake or forged documents and representations, most of which -if not all- were and are dealt in by courts, etc, but I am not aware of any such case in which the RoC authorities gave TC land to anyone to build his own villa, or sell them to third parties. I am simply not aware, and I also doubt that there was such a case, unless the person, that had used such a property to build, bought the property first from its TC owner in a legal way.

[Piratis]

The only thing that this kind of behavior will achieve is further alienate the TCs and the GCs from each other.

Sadik, the kind of behavior that alienates TCs and GCs from each other is the illegal development and sales of GC properties in the occupied areas.

If the TCs didn't do such illegal actions no arrests would have been made.

Therefore do not blame the GCs, when on this issue the ones that cause the problem are the TCs while GCs simply react to it in an effort to save their own properties.