Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

Bananiot, thats an army t-shirt. What do you want to tell to the soldiers of an occupied country? Armies are made to kill, isn't it? And defensive armies are made to kill those that invade the country isn't it? I hoipe one day there will be no occupation, no armies in Cyprus and no such t-shirts!

[Bananiot]

I see. So those t-shirts do exist. Beyond my imagination. It is nice to know, because for a minute I thought I should go for a check up.

Talking about armies and the way they should behave, it springs to mind that during the second world war, the Brits and the Germans were great adversaries, as you know. But, they respected each other a great deal. Generalisations of the type "a good Turk is a dead Turk" are the trade marks of a backward and uncivilised society, which will suffer more, as a result of its inability to view the world in its proper prospective. Thus, those of us that really love Cyprus, beyond slogans and "patriotic" hype, condemn such behaviour, but being a sorry minority, as some members are quick to point out, our feelings do not really count ...

[Kifeas]

Bananiot, thats an army t-shirt. What do you want to tell to the soldiers of an occupied country? Armies are made to kill, isn't it? And defensive armies are made to kill those that invade the country isn't it? I hoipe one day there will be no occupation, no armies in Cyprus and no such t-shirts!

No Sotos, the above explanation that you provide is ridiculous! Armies should not be made or trained to kill for the sake of killing, and certainly our army is not made or trained for this purpose either. Armies should be made and trained to defend a society or a country, or to liberate a society or a country; and not to kill the people of the opponent for the sake or for the fun of killing them! Such a "slogan" on a t-shirt suggests the killing of the opponent in a generalised way and just for the sake or for the fun of doing so, and certainly is both unacceptable and even illegal to be worn publicly or even in the camps! Furthermore, it does nothing to increase the moral of our army, but it decreases it instead, since it provides for a completely wrongful, misguided and illegitimate mission and objective.

Sotos,
As I am sure you know, there are shops in which someone can just walk in and order practically any imprint he wants on his t-shirt, including his own photo, logo, signature, etc, on a few or even on just one single t-shirt.

Are you saying that the said t-shirt imprint is one made on a t-shirt that the army formally distributes, or that it is formally distributed in army clothing shops, be it in camps or in the open market, or it is just the initiative of some individuals that went and made such imprints on their t-shirts and wear them? Can you please explain?

Furthermore, are you saying that this type of t-shirt is one that is massively and systematically wore in some military camps, or outside them, because I never come across it, or anyone else I know?

[cypezokyli]

i agree with kifeas on the role of the army. they are absolutely not made to kill.
i do not believe that/know if the army "sells" or provides such t-shirts.
but it does tollerates them.

just out of curiosity kifeas , bc you said when we see someone wearing such a t-shirt (which i didnot see in public) we should contact the police. i am just wondering if thats possible. do we have a law that could be used to ban such t-shirts?
for sure i would support such a law in general , but above all in a united cyprus

[Kifeas]

I see. So those t-shirts do exist. Beyond my imagination. It is nice to know, because for a minute I thought I should go for a check up.

Talking about armies and the way they should behave, it springs to mind that during the second world war, the Brits and the Germans were great adversaries, as you know. But, they respected each other a great deal. Generalisations of the type "a good Turk is a dead Turk" are the trade marks of a backward and uncivilised society, which will suffer more, as a result of its inability to view the world in its proper prospective. Thus, those of us that really love Cyprus, beyond slogans and "patriotic" hype, condemn such behaviour, but being a sorry minority, as some members are quick to point out, our feelings do not really count ...

Bananiot, only two things you can be, but definitely not the one you claimed, i.e. that you are among those that really love this country! You are either a schizophrenic, or a devious and a sneaky back-stabber of your own community –the 80% of people of this country that you claim you love!

You are a schizophrenic since you claim to believe and work for the re-unification of this country and its people –and you even accuse and blame those that did not approve the plan which you believe and claim it would have genuinely brought or achieved such a “re-unification” -for not doing so on wrongful premises; while at the same time you claim, insist and propagandise that one of the two societies -the largest of the two that you would like to see brought together and re-united, is one composed by pathological racists, hate mongers, uncivilised, and primitive people, and one composed by people whose elected leaderships candidly nurture, cultivate and promote such traits, attitudes and behaviours, and you even come here in the forums and announce publicly and in a defaming manner the above “facts” and “findings,” both towards the other society that you claim you want to re-united with and the international audience in general.

If both of the above facts that evidently constitute your so far marked behaviour in the forums, constitute indeed your truthful and genuine set of beliefs, aims and claims, then you are a schizophrenic, since both of them cannot exist together. For what reason do you want the re-unification of the people –the GC and the TC societies- of the country that you claim you love, if one of the two societies –the largest one, cultivates, develops and exhibits the traits that you all to often describe in the forums it does, especially towards the other society (community) of this country. Any normal person would have been at least reluctant in promoting such a re-unification, and only a schizophrenic would have been in favour of it.

The above describes the first of the two possible things which you may be, and I hope it is the one that is proved to be the case. The second one is the possibility that you are a conscious and devious back-stabber of your community, for reasons beyond my ability to know exactly, but only to assume. The question that will always remain hanging -if you are not a schizophrenic and that you indeed know or saw the existence of such a t-shirt, is why you did not report such a person to the police on grounds of inciting racial hatred, and why your party (Vasiliou /Papapetrou) that happened to be a partner of the previous government until 3 years ago, did nothing to remove and completely ban such t-shirts from been worn in the army; and instead you came in the forums to “brag” such a thing publicly, for the sole aim of defaming the GC society and its leadership for tolerating such things. If you did not do so in order to back-stab the GC society, them for what reason you did it? Please tell us!

And by the way, please do not give us lessons on the practices of other nationalities and their armies, especially on the British one. We all see, read and hear of its “civilised” behaviour in places like Iraq for example, the songs they sing in their camps, the t-shirts they wear and the photos and videos they make in order to brag their “achievements” against the Iraqi people (and women;) and virtually all under the “nose” of their officers and their government.

[Kifeas]

i agree with kifeas on the role of the army. they are absolutely not made to kill.
i do not believe that/know if the army "sells" or provides such t-shirts.
but it does tollerates them.

just out of curiosity kifeas , bc you said when we see someone wearing such a t-shirt (which i didnot see in public) we should contact the police. i am just wondering if thats possible. do we have a law that could be used to ban such t-shirts?
for sure i would support such a law in general , but above all in a united cyprus

Yes there is a law that prohibits any behaviour that may directly or indirectly incite racial hatred, and the police have a duty to enforce it! Any policeman that refuses or neglects to take action on the above grounds, is subject to punitive measures by his superiors in the police, and civil prosecution charges in the civil courts by any individual. Even the person that gets involved or engaged into such behaviour can be subject to civil charges in civil courts, directly by any individual citizen that witnesses such behaviour.

[cypezokyli]

The question that will always remain hanging , ... and why your party (Vasiliou /Papapetrou) that happened to be a partner of the previous government until 3 years ago, did nothing to remove and completely ban such t-shirts from been worn in the army ?

it is a legitimate question...

[miltiades]

Bananiot did see that T-shirt , ignorant and primitive people full of hate exist now just as they existed in the early 60s .The same people who driven by hatred and blind devotion to the motherland doctrine committed crimes against our communities , these are the people who have become the major stabling block , having reduced the trust degree to the lowest levels. These are the people who are deluding them selves that they are true patriots.
I disagree with Baniot on the Annan plan , I don't for a minute subscribe to Kifeas analysis Bananiot .I see him , Bananiot , as a true Cypriot.
Kifeas , on a number of times , has been considered by some as an extremist , again I do not see that in any way what so ever. He is an advocate of one man one vote , throughout the world hundreds of thousands lost
their lives fighting for such a democratic principle, in fact the main infredient in a true democracy .
Where we differ is that I don't see minorities or majorities in Cyprus , and I'm not blind , I just see Cypriots
but fully appreciate that realities are evident and the vast majority's concerns have to be addressed not brushed aside hoping that acceptance will be a matter of time , because it wont be. The Annan plan was doomed to fail from the start, since id did not unite our people , it divided them for ever.

[Bananiot]

This is the opinion of Loucas Charalampous on the subject. Another psychopath who daily promotes the anti-Greek, Turkish propaganda, according to the patriotic voices of the forum.

"THIS STORY about police detaining Turkish Cypriots and others on the grounds that they have interfered on Greek Cypriot properties in the north is threatening to take on absurd dimensions. In the space of four days last week, eight people were detained and inconvenienced by police for a reason that, even to us, seems ridiculous.

The first case involved the arrest of an architect because police found building plans in his car for the construction of 17 houses in the occupied village of Vasilia. Two days later, four women were arrested because they had in their possession photocopies of the passports of Greek Cypriots, certificates about some Turkish Cypriot properties and letters addressed to the Compensation Committee. The women were released after the intervention of lawyers.

On the same evening two Israelis and a German were arrested after police searched their cars and found documents relating to the construction of a hotel in Kyrenia. According to Phileleftheros, the three were released. I suspect the government was forced to release them after the intervention of their respective embassies. A day later, an Irishman was detained after police searched his baggage at the Ayios Dhometios checkpoint (he was on his way to the airport) and found brochures for developments in the north. The brochures were kept and the Irishman was allowed to leave.

It makes you wonder what the point of this tactic is. As I have written in the past, the largest proportion of Turkish Cypriot properties, some 550,000 donums, is the south. In the north, Greek Cypriots own about 1.5 million donums and Turkish Cypriots 400,000 donums. For as long as there is no settlement that will solve the property issues, it is inevitable that the Turkish Cypriots will use Greek Cypriot properties. Where are they going to build new houses, in the sea?

This question needs to be answered by some on our side, particularly by President Papadopoulos, who has a sizeable share of the responsibility for the fact that the Turkish Cypriots are where they are today, as we drove them from their properties in the south in 1963. This responsibility becomes even greater when you consider that he is to blame for the continuation of this situation in the past two years.

There is also an element of the surreal in this behaviour by the government. From the moment someone works as an architect in the north, it is inevitable that he will design plans for houses that will be built on land owned by Greek Cypriots, as this land is needed for housing for the people living there. As a consequence, all Turkish Cypriot architects must be arrested when trying to cross a checkpoint.

And by the same logic, we should also arrest the 8,000 Turkish Cypriot construction workers who cross over every day for work. Because it is impossible they would not have worked, at some point, on houses being built on Greek Cypriot properties in the north. The same applies to painters, carpenters, welders and all others who have been involved in construction in the north.
That the idiotic policy of the long-term struggle would have led us to the current situation was never in doubt. The disregard of our leadership for the influence of the time factor on issues like the Cyprus problem gradually created a situation that cannot be tackled with absurd action such as the arrests of the last few days.

In this respect, it should be said that the policy Glafcos Clerides proposed immediately after the invasion has been proved absolutely correct. I still remember the exact words he had used at the time. “The fruitless passing of time will solidify the faits accomplis in the north and a day will come when they cannot be reversed,” he warned. That day has come and the faits accomplis cannot be reversed, either with the arrest of Turkish Cypriots at the checkpoints or with the big and small vetoes at the EU which have developed into an ongoing farce. A farce that could well develop into a tragedy if we continue to pretend that we have not understood the importance of the time factor and how right Clerides was".

[Piratis]

This is the opinion of Loucas Charalampous on the subject. Another psychopath who daily promotes the anti-Greek, Turkish propaganda, according to the patriotic voices of the forum.

Exactly. Thanks for the warning so we will not waste our time with a psychopath.

i agree with kifeas on the role of the army. they are absolutely not made to kill.

I definitely disagree. If they were not made to kill then why are they given weapons and ammunition? To play?

An army is made to kill. An aggressive, offensive army like the one of Turkey is made to kill for expansionist purposes.

A defensive army like the one of Cyprus is made to defend our country from foreign invaders.

And guess what. In our country we already have foreign invaders. If our army had the power it should have indeed killed them to liberate our country. Is there any doubt about this?

The slogan is obviously wrong in that it generalizes that every Turk is better dead, something that is wrong and racist.

However an army slogan similar to "Every foreign invador is good only when dead or prisoner" would be perfectly correct.

On the other hand should our army be trained to do what is right? Because the army on the other side is apparently trained to perform ethnic cleansing and crimes against innocent unarmed people.