Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

no comment from anyone ?

it seems that CTP is loosing power to the right, but at the time being it could now brake its bond with serdar. as far as i know akici proposed that CTP abandons serdar and wants nothing in return.

should the turn of tc to the right worry us ?
would you consider an akici talat goverment better for the cyppro ?

........
my prediction ?
the chances of talat braking his affair with serdar , are the same as hristofias divorcing tpap.
its the fate of the cypriot "left"

[Piratis]

Does it matter? The policies about the Cyprus Problem are taken from Ankara, and from the Turkish generals. We had great hopes when Talat got the leadership but what I said above is now proven.

The "elections" in the occupied areas have the same importance as our municipal elections.

[sadik]

no comment from anyone ?

it seems that CTP is loosing power to the right, but at the time being it could now brake its bond with serdar. as far as i know akici proposed that CTP abandons serdar and wants nothing in return.

should the turn of tc to the right worry us ?
would you consider an akici talat goverment better for the cyppro ?

........
my prediction ?
the chances of talat braking his affair with serdar , are the same as hristofias divorcing tpap.
its the fate of the cypriot "left"

On the downside for CTP, CTP lost Nicosia municipality, which obviously is the most significan municipality because it's the largest in the north, plus it's one of the three internationally recognized municipalities.

On the upside for the CTP, CTP won two empty seats in the by-elections and CTP alone now controls half of the seats in the parliement. Theoretically, it's possible to kick Serdar out of the goventment with the backing of Akinci. On a practical level, this is not very likely because a government with a majority of a single seat will be very difficult to run. Plus, I don't think Talat will ever "let Serdar go".

The other significance of the elections is the evidence of a slight rightward turn in the TC elections. We now see that the myth that there is no alternative to the CTP is not true, and the right wing parties are alive and well and are capable of winning. As a matter of fact, they won against the CTP in most places where they managed to collaborate. The other left wing parties now completely vanished. CTP is alone on the left of the political spectrum.

CTP came to the power solely on the promise of a solution to the Cyprus problem and integration with Europe. It has not managed to improve the situation towards a solution. Some steps have been taken in the relations with Europe, but that was not enough either. There are also signs of cracks in the coalition and the alliances that the CTP managed to put together during the Annan Plan era, such as the problems with the teachers unions. It's likely that without any improvements in the Cyprus problem, CTP will see more erosion in its popularity.

[sadik]

Does it matter? The policies about the Cyprus Problem are taken from Ankara, and from the Turkish generals. We had great hopes when Talat got the leadership but what I said above is now proven.

The "elections" in the occupied areas have the same importance as our municipal elections.

You are wrong on this.

Turkish elite is and will stay fragmented enough for the forseeable future that no government in Turkey can push for a solution of the Cyprus Problem without the strong support of the Turkish Cypriots. No government in Turkey can pass any resolution approving a solution plan in Cyprus, if the Turkish Cypriot public and the leadership does not put their full support behind it.

[Piratis]

Sadik, I am not saying that a solution can be found if TCs are totally opposed to it.

At the same time, TCs alone can not take decisions about the Cyprus problem without the approval of Turkey. On the contrary the policies come from Ankara directly. Nobody can deny this.

We have seen the "right" and we have seen the "left" of TC leadership. It made no difference. Therefore to the question if we (Greek Cypriots) should worry about the TC right, the answer is that we should not worry any more than we should worry about the TC "left". The problem is across the whole TC leadership (at least the ones that receive a significant amount of votes)

[sadik]

Sadik, I am not saying that a solution can be found if TCs are totally opposed to it.

At the same time, TCs alone can not take decisions about the Cyprus problem without the approval of Turkey. On the contrary the policies come from Ankara directly. Nobody can deny this.

We have seen the "right" and we have seen the "left" of TC leadership. It made no difference. Therefore to the question if we (Greek Cypriots) should worry about the TC right, the answer is that we should not worry any more than we should worry about the TC "left". The problem is across the whole TC leadership (at least the ones that receive a significant amount of votes)

Unfortunately, among all the concerned sides in the Cyprus Problem (GCs, TCs, Turkey and Greece), TCs are the weakest. We don't have the numbers, economic means or arms to force anything onto anyone. We just don't have the power. However, it's a different story once the solution process -somehow- gets started. TC left can get a Yes vote out.

Look at the following for the attitudes of the TC Left, TC Right, TC and the GC general public in relation to the attitudes towards different versions of the Annan Plan. And see for yourself, if the TC Left or Right would make a difference in a potential settlement.

Annan 1: TC Left: YES - TC Right: NO - TC Public: YES - GC Public: YES
Annan 2: TC Left: YES - TC Right: NO - TC Public: YES - GC Public: YES
Annan 3: TC Left: YES - TC Right: NO - TC Public: YES - GC Public: YES
Annan 4: TC Left: YES - TC Right: NO - TC Public: YES - GC Public: NO
Annan 5: TC Left: YES - TC Right: NO - TC Public: YES - GC Public: NO

For the GC attitudes, I searched for opinion polls published at the times of relevant versions of the plan. The last one that the plan was supported was the following, which incidentally coincided with the release of Annan 3 and the election of Papadopoulos.

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/cmnews/2 ... mnews.html

[stuballstu]

Piratis

Does it matter? The policies about the Cyprus Problem are taken from Ankara, and from the Turkish generals. We had great hopes when Talat got the leadership but what I said above is now proven.

The "elections" in the occupied areas have the same importance as our municipal elections.

As far as i am aware the elections in the North with the exception of 2 to replace MP's one of wholm had died and another is now leader, were municipality elections.

The results of elections wether local (municipality) or regional are also used to gauge public opinion on how well an administration is doing. The TC electorate favour unification (at this time, it may change) that is why Talat was originally voted in. As time goes on TC's in general may change their mind as it is a little like waiting for a bus to come along except the wheels have fallen off a couple of miles down the road and the drivers refuse to put it back on. The passengers in waiting may choose to cross the road and go in a different direction.

Do you fancy lobbying your government and getting the wheels back on the bus?

[Piratis]

There was never a unification bus stuballstu. The Annan plan bus was for legalizing partition, the kind of bus TCs were waiting for since before the 50s and they thought that it finally came.

I guess now they realized we are not so stupid to enter a partition bus simply because it has "unification" as a label. Therefore they are returning to their good old tactics of trying to achieve their aim, which has never changed unfortunately.

If TCs were supporting unification they would not support the illegal occupation and the pseudo state of "trnc". How can you be a supporter of unification and of "trnc" at the same time? This is an oxymoron only those that are (or pretend to be) stupid can not see.

Apparently Annan "confused" the labels and gave us partition with the label "unification".



"Do you like the Blue word or the red word, Annan asked". Nice trick, isn't it?

[miltiades]

Having opposed the Annan plan I have to agree with Piratis , that was no solution , neither was there reunification , I'm totally focused on one Cyprus for all Cypriots enjoying equal status as Cypriot citizens , not as Turks or Greeks.
Acceptance of the Annan plan would have meant the endorsement of the invasion , capitulating to Turkey and resigning to the fact that the people of Cyprus are two separate entities destined to live apart for generations to come and destroying for ever the prospect of one Cyprus , one Cypriot ethnicity.Principles that are part of the UK political spectrum with political parties consisting of Britons regardless of ethnicity , Scots , Irish , Welsh , English
Asians , Caribbeans , are feasible for Cyprus . It will take brave politicians from all sides to abandon ethnic parties and create new ones embracing all Cypriots.

[stuballstu]

Piratis

There was never a unification bus stuballstu. The Annan plan bus was for legalizing partition, the kind of bus TCs were waiting for since before the 50s and they thought that it finally came.

I guess now they realized we are not so stupid to enter a partition bus simply because it has "unification" as a label. Therefore they are returning to their good old tactics of trying to achieve their aim, which has never changed unfortunately.

If TCs were supporting unification they would not support the illegal occupation and the pseudo state of "trnc". How can you be a supporter of unification and of "trnc" at the same time? This is an oxymoron only those that are (or pretend to be) stupid can not see.

Apparently Annan "confused" the labels and gave us partition with the label "unification".

Piratis

TC's were not the drivers of this particular bus only passengers who wanted to get on, its just a pity the wheels fell off this bus before it picked up their fellow Cypriots.

You are forgeting that TC's back in the 60's and 70's were living in enclaves, their very existence threatened, living in exile from the rest of the world was better than not living at all. Why are you always making accusations towards the TC's? Sometimes you sound like a school kid who doesnt want to play because its his ball and if he doesnt like the result will go off in a strop.

miltiades wrote

Having opposed the Annan plan I have to agree with Piratis , that was no solution , neither was there reunification , I'm totally focused on one Cyprus for all Cypriots enjoying equal status as Cypriot citizens , not as Turks or Greeks.
Acceptance of the Annan plan would have meant the endorsement of the invasion , capitulating to Turkey and resigning to the fact that the people of Cyprus are two separate entities destined to live apart for generations to come and destroying for ever the prospect of one Cyprus , one Cypriot ethnicity.Principles that are part of the UK political spectrum with political parties consisting of Britons regardless of ethnicity , Scots , Irish , Welsh , English
Asians , Caribbeans , are feasible for Cyprus . It will take brave politicians from all sides to abandon ethnic parties and create new ones embracing all Cypriots.

Miltiades

It is the only plan to be put to both communities in Cyprus. Regardless, i am sure, that you at least respect the rights of the TC's who voted yes as well as the rights of the GC's to vote no. One of the problems since Annan is that there is transparancy by GC politicians. Why dont they come out and say if you change A, B, C, D on the plan then we would vote yes? They wont do that because it means showing commitment towards finding a solutions, whatever that may be. At this moment it is nothing short of bullying to accept Turkish Cypriots into what? They have never been offered anything, in fact even when the EU wants to give them badly needed aid their fellow Cypriots, GC's, make attempts to block it.

To get to the focus that Cyprus is for all Cypriots enjoying equal status that one day may come, but it is like stepping stones. If enough trust had been built up over the years after Annan then maybe the communities could have came together in the future it is something which we may never know. However forcing 2 parties together like an arranged marriage there is no guarantee that would work either. The danger for the GC administration is that most governments around the world endorsed the Annan plan. There is a danger to them of loosing some credibilty by saying no, which is of course their democratic right.

As time goes on it is now the younger generations that are hearing stories not from their parents but from their grand parents about the old cyprus, when there were mixed villages and many GC's spoke Turkish and TC's spoke Greek. The longer time goes on future generations will hear these stories second hand. As every survey gets done then most younger TC's and GC's who are asked if they prefered living with each other the higher percentage will say they dont really care if they do or not which is sad in itself.