Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Kifeas wrote

Stuballstu and others, there is no point talking about the Annan plan any longer. The Annan plan was rejected and cannot be brought back, because it is completely unfair for the GC community, in all aspects and areas. The biggest problem with this plan is with its central philosophy.

Kifeas, with respect, what you may have failed to realise is that up to now the Annan plan was the best alternative to the solution of the Cyprus problem.

With all due respect, but the above sentence makes no sense to me. What do you mean by “the best alternative to the solution of the Cyprus problem?” Which were the other alternatives that were made available, and among which you regard the Annan plan as “the best one?”

What some people have failed to grasp is that the plan was not brought out of thin air but was put together after years of study on Cyprus and negotiated with TC's and GC's.

Who says so? Those who made the plan and those that were behind it, i.e. the Anglo-Americans? Of course they will say so for their product? The above is an assumption or an evaluation that the G/C side doesn’t accept or agree with!

Any future plan proposed by the UN and endorsed by the majority of the worlds community will more than likely be a revised what was known as the Annan plan.

It depends how much “revised” it will be! If it will be the same plan with some decorating changes, but which will retain the same philosophy, then the G/C side has already made a vow not to put it into a referendum at all!

[miltiades]

PS.
Following the posting of my site www.devonscatering.co.uk , a London Turkish Cypriot placed an order that will generate enough profit to pay for my next trip to Cyprus. He never asked for a discount either !!

[stuballstu]

stuballstu wrote:
Kifeas wrote
Quote:
Stuballstu and others, there is no point talking about the Annan plan any longer. The Annan plan was rejected and cannot be brought back, because it is completely unfair for the GC community, in all aspects and areas. The biggest problem with this plan is with its central philosophy.


Kifeas, with respect, what you may have failed to realise is that up to now the Annan plan was the best alternative to the solution of the Cyprus problem.

With all due respect, but the above sentence makes no sense to me. What do you mean by “the best alternative to the solution of the Cyprus problem?” Which were the other alternatives that were made available, and among which you regard the Annan plan as “the best one?”

Kifeas

Apologies it makes little sense when i read it back, Mrs Stuballstu asked me for a lift when i was typing...sorry.

What i meant to say was to date it has been the closest thing to a solution with no alternative on the table or even looming another 2 years further down the road.

Quote:
What some people have failed to grasp is that the plan was not brought out of thin air but was put together after years of study on Cyprus and negotiated with TC's and GC's.

Who says so? Those who made the plan and those that were behind it, i.e. the Anglo-Americans? Of course they will say so for their product? The above is an assumption or an evaluation that the G/C side doesn’t accept or agree with

This was a product of the UN endorsed by most governments around the world including Ango Americans. Even now Papadopolous says when the next plan comes he will ask what the Chinese think. Does he think they care?

Quote:
Any future plan proposed by the UN and endorsed by the majority of the worlds community will more than likely be a revised what was known as the Annan plan.

It depends how much “revised” it will be! If it will be the same plan with some decorating changes, but which will retain the same philosophy, then the G/C side has already made a vow not to put it into a referendum at all!

What happens then? Permanent partition??

PS.
Following the posting of my site www.devonscatering.co.uk , a London Turkish Cypriot placed an order that will generate enough profit to pay for my next trip to Cyprus. He never asked for a discount either !!

A Cypriot not asking for a discount? that sounds to good to be true

Miltiades

Stuballstu , circumstances permitting , on my next visit to Cyprus , contrary to earlier stated principles regarding my reluctance to cross over the "other side " I will do so if only to bye you a drink!!
Ps .I hope you are not a teetotaler !!

That would be good Miltiades. I am returning to the UK next week for a month or so for business and also to escape the sun. We can meet in the north or the south my family have property either side. As i am sure you are aware you will get as warm a welcome in the north as the south. Teetotal absolutely no chance it'd be my pleasure to share a few beers with you.

[miltiades]

You are on let me know when you are in London .

[Viewpoint]

The withdrawing of the T/Cs into enclaves was partly initiated because of the eruption of intercommunal fighting and violence in 1963/64, i.e. due to a real need to move into a safer place, and partly because it was the policy of the TMT to have the T/C community withdrawn into the enclaves.

Furthermore, and beyond the above, the maintenance of the enclaves and the (largely forceful) maintenance of the T/Cs into the enclaves after the period of unrest had ended, mainly after 1967, was solely due to the TMT and the TC leadership’s desires, for tactical and strategic reasons profoundly relating to the on-going Turkish and T/C plans for the eventual Turkish invasion and partition of Cyprus. Turkey and the then Turkish Cypriot leadership were continuously (day and night) plotting the Turkish invasion and partition, well before it occurred in 1974 (since 1963/64!) The T/C community was needed to facilitate the succesfull outcome of the invasion, whenever it would have finally occured, either directly or indirectly, and the best way to have done so was to have remained concentrated into the enclaves.

This is the only truth!

According to the "oracle" Kifeas

[Filitsa]

You are forgeting that TC's back in the 60's and 70's were living in enclaves, their very existence threatened, living in exile from the rest of the world was better than not living at all.

Stu, how significantly has this changed for the average TC in the past 46 years?

[miltiades]

Viewpoint , Kifeas is correct in his post. Please remember that there are always two sides to a story.

[Bananiot]

It serves no purpose trying to belittle Talat by constantly referring to Ankara being his master. Talat participated actively in a real revolution and managed to turn ten of thousands of T. Cypriots to the streets in order to bring the downfall of Denktash when the latter was seen by most as an unshakeble father figure. Talat must have played a big role in the changes in policy in Ankara when for 30 or so years Turkey considered the Cyprob to have been solved in 1974. To cut a short story long, we will never find a better partner to solve our problem than Talat. Unfortunately, when Talat took the reigns in the north, we brought in our own Denktash in the shape of President Papadopoulos who has rejected every plan proposed for the solution of the Cyprob since 1957, well before it became an intercommunal problem. He even rejected the London-Zurich agreements but of course, like Makarios, he later "accepted" them only as a stepping stone towards enosis. He was more than willing to push aside anyone who stood a barrier to the enosis aspirations. Bad luck if you happened to be a Turkish Cypriot, there was no room for mercy (for dogs). Oh yes, this was how we called them and some of us use the sick term today too.

[Kifeas]

It serves no purpose trying to belittle Talat by constantly referring to Ankara being his master. Talat participated actively in a real revolution and managed to turn ten of thousands of T. Cypriots to the streets in order to bring the downfall of Denktash when the latter was seen by most as an unshakeble father figure. Talat must have played a big role in the changes in policy in Ankara when for 30 or so years Turkey considered the Cyprob to have been solved in 1974. To cut a short story long, we will never find a better partner to solve our problem than Talat. Unfortunately, when Talat took the reigns in the north, we brought in our own Denktash in the shape of President Papadopoulos who has rejected every plan proposed for the solution of the Cyprob since 1957, well before it became an intercommunal problem. He even rejected the London-Zurich agreements but of course, like Makarios, he later "accepted" them only as a stepping stone towards enosis. He was more than willing to push aside anyone who stood a barrier to the enosis aspirations. Bad luck if you happened to be a Turkish Cypriot, there was no room for mercy (for dogs). Oh yes, this was how we called them and some of us use the sick term today too.

I personally do not know anyone from my entire family circle of some 100 people, nor anyone from the several hundrets of people I know from My village Lapithos, or my mother’s village Karavas, or my father’s village Vasilleia, or the even from the few thousands of people I know from Pafos, were I live now, that call nowadays the TCs as dogs; either in front of them or behind them. If you know such people, then they must be from your own circles of close associates, in which case I can only congratulate you for the relatives or friends or associates that you choose to have.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint , Kifeas is correct in his post. Please remember that there are always two sides to a story.

But he clearly states there are not two sides to a story as you see from his concluding words "This is the only truth! "

You should really redirect what you said to him dont you think?