Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

One major difference is that the R.o.C does not call it self the Greek Cypriot Republic ,neither does it have a constitution drafted by a foreign nation

oh, oh.... i think a number of forum members will disagree with you on the above. let me remind you the argument : the constituion was imposed on us , against our will.

as for the "trnc constitution" , what did you expect ? just like the anthem , it represent a specific policy from a specific leadership (denktash) and it doesnot necessarily represent the will of the people. i mean ofcource it is important to read , whats written on that constitution, but i wouldnt get overexcited about it. its a piece of paper written at a specific point in time to serve specific interests. the political cost of attempting to change that would have been immense (can you imagine our president banning our foreign national anthem? ) . important are the political actions , and the actions of the people.

[miltiades]

Well lets hope that there are more vociferous and loud voices proclaiming that Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots. And YES , I agree wholeheartedly that the Cypriot government ought to reconsider its position on the national anthem and the hoisting of the Greek flag. You cant go on saying that Cyprus is one nation for all Cypriots and then contradict this by singing the Greek anthem.

[stuballstu]

Quote:
Why when a cypriot get stopped by the police in their car the first thing the police ask what does you father do?

Why does my TC friend get a parking ticked, admittedly for parking illegally, beside GC registered cars who do not get a ticket? Why was the ticket not issued in Turkish which is an official language of Cyprus?



I was never asked by a policeman what I or my father does, and I received several parking and other tickets.
So I guess I must be either a foreigner or a Turkish Cypriot. Or you are just using some isolated cases to present the GCs as bad as possible and argue that they therefore deserve to have their human rights mass violated by Turkey simply because of their race. How many lame excuses are you going to tell us, really?

A few isolated incidents Piratis? I take it you completely ignored about the Turkish part on the ticket after all it is an "official" language of Cyprus. Ask some of your fellow GC's about the questions the police ask. Piratis you have to admit the ROC police is a disgrace. The things they do and try to get away with. I wont go on but for the sake of Cyprus reform will happen.

Quote:
Piratis you fine know that people shorten the name of the president to Tpap or PapD due the size of the name and the embarrassment over typos. It is NOT a nickname but an abbreviated one there is a difference can even someone as blinded as you sometimes appear to be see it?


Sure, sure, you and many others show the outermost respect to Papadopoulos. Whatever

Stop acting stupid Piratis. You fine well know that Tpap and PapaD are abbreviated versions of the name Tassos Papadopolous. Not a nickname please dont insult your or anyones elses intelligence. Why would i not respect a democratically elected person, of course i do i might not agree with his policies but respect is something I have for others, do you? Maybe showing it would help clear up the confusion.

Democratically elected??? Ethnically cleansing the majority of the people of an area, illegally bringing in your own, and then getting elected by them is called democracy now??? What he represents is not the TC community, since he was not elected as such (Leader of TC community). He has elected as the leader of the pseudo "trnc" and he therefore represents this "trnc" and everything that "trnc" stands for which is nothing more that ethnic cleansing and illegalities, the 2 factors that created and maintain this pseudo state of Turkey.
It is time that the TCs alone (without the settlers and Turkey) elect their leader that can take the place that legally belongs to him, which is not a "president" or "prime minister" of an illegal state in Cyprus, but that of vice president of RoC.

Unless you have taken down the bricks to door at parliament how do you get Talat to become the VP. Why doesn't Mr Papadopolous invite him? We've been down this road before, thats right he wont get invited until Turkish troops leave you said. Stalemate????

Quote:
EU laws and Directives supersede local laws on member states Piratis, it is part of the accession. "Minor details to be ironed out". Yeah right the UK request a Greek Cypriot's extradition under a European Arrest warrant to face serious criminal charges and the ROC says sorry our constitution will not allow us to extradite a Cypriot citizen! Respect to international law you call it?


So why the Orams case was not automatically applied in the UK then? Apparently the EU agreements are not so straight forward as you think.
Also do not confuse international law, with EU. The two are different. The first should be followed by every country, while the second is part of the agreements that EU countries have between them

Piratis i used to think you were well informed, however i'll inform you. with regards to the Orams case the ROC authorities have to register the court of the ROC decision with the UK authorities as they are UK citizens. The ROC are trying to register the decision against the assets of the Orams and as they have assets in the UK this is were the application to was made of which the Orams are appealing as they have every right to do. There is no confusion, at least on my part, with international law.

I take it you just ignored the post reference the GC who is wanted in the UK and wholm the ROC authorities refuse to extradite? No comment on your part, your silence is deafening!!!

Piratis please dont try and lecture anyone on EU values and when you obviously have so much to learn yourself.

Incidentally i think the Orams will win their appeal but we'll keep that for another thread shall we

[Piratis]

A few isolated incidents Piratis? I take it you completely ignored about the Turkish part on the ticket after all it is an "official" language of Cyprus.

The north part of our Country is an official part of RoC as well. Do they respect this? If you ask me, RoC is in fact very flexible with TCs. Many of them continue to act illegally and in a treasonous way by supporting the "trnc", yet RoC doesn't do to them what they would do to a GC acting in a similar manner.

Ask some of your fellow GC's about the questions the police ask. Piratis you have to admit the ROC police is a disgrace. The things they do and try to get away with. I wont go on but for the sake of Cyprus reform will happen.

I didn't say that police in Cyprus is perfect. What I said is that you are using lame excuses. If some institution in the UK was not good, would that excuse the occupation of UK by another country and the ethnic cleansing of the British? How many more lame excuses are you going to give?

Stop acting stupid Piratis. You fine well know that Tpap and PapaD are abbreviated versions of the name Tassos Papadopolous. Not a nickname please dont insult your or anyones elses intelligence. Why would i not respect a democratically elected person, of course i do i might not agree with his policies but respect is something I have for others, do you? Maybe showing it would help clear up the confusion.

An insult to anyones intelligence is you saying that you and some others have the outermost respect to Papadopoulos. I will not waste more time arguing for the obvious.

Unless you have taken down the bricks to door at parliament how do you get Talat to become the VP. Why doesn't Mr Papadopolous invite him? We've been down this road before, thats right he wont get invited until Turkish troops leave you said. Stalemate????

Why should Papadopoulos invite him? He was elected as the leader of the pseudo state, and a lot of the voters were not even TCs. RoC has specific rules about how the elections should be done. How can you want to be a president or vice president of a state that you don't respect its laws?

If Talat wants to be the VP of RoC, then the TCs (only) should vote in legal elections made by RoC and ellect their leader.

Piratis i used to think you were well informed, however i'll inform you. with regards to the Orams case the ROC authorities have to register the court of the ROC decision with the UK authorities as they are UK citizens. The ROC are trying to register the decision against the assets of the Orams and as they have assets in the UK this is were the application to was made of which the Orams are appealing as they have every right to do. There is no confusion, at least on my part, with international law.

I take it you just ignored the post reference the GC who is wanted in the UK and wholm the ROC authorities refuse to extradite? No comment on your part, your silence is deafening!!!

The same way that UK has specific rules about how the Orams case should proceed, the same goes for Cyprus.
You are indeed very confused about international law. The cases of Orams and the one you mention fall within EU procedures and not international law in general.

Piratis please dont try and lecture anyone on EU values and when you obviously have so much to learn yourself.

Incidentally i think the Orams will win their appeal but we'll keep that for another thread shall we

Ok, I will take lessons about values from you, a supporter of crimes, ethnic cleansing and the illegal sale of GC properties to foreigners.

[stuballstu]

Quote:
Ask some of your fellow GC's about the questions the police ask. Piratis you have to admit the ROC police is a disgrace. The things they do and try to get away with. I wont go on but for the sake of Cyprus reform will happen.


I didn't say that police in Cyprus is perfect. What I said is that you are using lame excuses. If some institution in the UK was not good, would that excuse the occupation of UK by another country and the ethnic cleansing of the British? How many more lame excuses are you going to give?

Piratis

Lame excuses??? Please explain. I think the actions of certain members of the police force is definately lame. You, in an earlier post, stated that you wanted a solution based on "European Values". These are examples of the "European Values" which are present in Cyprus? These are thye "European values" which you enjoy?

Quote:
Unless you have taken down the bricks to door at parliament how do you get Talat to become the VP. Why doesn't Mr Papadopolous invite him? We've been down this road before, thats right he wont get invited until Turkish troops leave you said. Stalemate????

Why should Papadopoulos invite him?

This is why there is a stalemate!!!

Let me ask you one thing Piratis. Do you think it is fair on your fellow Cypriots that they are exiled from trading with the rest of the world through a situation which is not of their making? do you sympathise with your fellow Cypriots?

If Talat wants to be the VP of RoC, then the TCs (only) should vote in legal elections made by RoC and ellect their leader

Unless TC's were living on the Greek Cypriot side of the green line then they were not allowed to either vote or stand for elections. Then again you knew that Piratis so what is your point?

Quote:
Piratis i used to think you were well informed, however i'll inform you. with regards to the Orams case the ROC authorities have to register the court of the ROC decision with the UK authorities as they are UK citizens. The ROC are trying to register the decision against the assets of the Orams and as they have assets in the UK this is were the application to was made of which the Orams are appealing as they have every right to do. There is no confusion, at least on my part, with international law.

I take it you just ignored the post reference the GC who is wanted in the UK and wholm the ROC authorities refuse to extradite? No comment on your part, your silence is deafening!!!


The same way that UK has specific rules about how the Orams case should proceed, the same goes for Cyprus.
You are indeed very confused about international law. The cases of Orams and the one you mention fall within EU procedures and not international law in general

.

I am confused with international law? Really in what way? Please tell me.

I think you'll find that it is due to European Laws that the ROC is able to register their courts decisions in the UK so what is the pertenance of mentioning international law in this case? Are you going to copy and paste as an answer?

Do you think its right that a GC citizen wanted on serious charges in the UK can not be extradited by Cypriot law? Do you Piratis? Third time of asking. Are you incapable of answering direct questions, it is a major habit of yours?

Quote:
Piratis please dont try and lecture anyone on EU values and when you obviously have so much to learn yourself.

Incidentally i think the Orams will win their appeal but we'll keep that for another thread shall we

Ok, I will take lessons about values from you, a supporter of crimes, ethnic cleansing and the illegal sale of GC properties to foreigners.

When have i ever stated that i support the as you say "illegal sale" of Greek Cypriot properties? please tell me Piratis. This is the supporter of the current polices of a government which wants to keep Turkish Cypriots in isolation and you dare lecture others about what is right and wrong.

Keep taking the tablets Piratis

[Piratis]

Lame excuses??? Please explain. I think the actions of certain members of the police force is definately lame. You, in an earlier post, stated that you wanted a solution based on "European Values". These are examples of the "European Values" which are present in Cyprus? These are thye "European values" which you enjoy?

And your point is? That because something in Cyprus is not perfect this means that Cyprus should be illegally occupied?
If it was like this then every country should be invaded!
I am sick of the lame excuses by the ethnic cleansing supporters of your kind.

Let me ask you one thing Piratis. Do you think it is fair on your fellow Cypriots that they are exiled from trading with the rest of the world through a situation which is not of their making? do you sympathise with your fellow Cypriots?

I would sympathize with them if they declared that they are under occupation and the "trnc" and the Turkish army are forced upon them and that they would be willing to return to legality if that was allowed to them by Turkey. How many Turkish Cypriots have you seen doing that?
When they support bad things for us, we will support bad things for them.

I have many times said that ALL cypriots should get their rights back. This is something rejected by Turkey and TCs so why don't you go to convince them to respect my human and democratic rights as well?

Unless TC's were living on the Greek Cypriot side of the green line then they were not allowed to either vote or stand for elections. Then again you knew that Piratis so what is your point?

And whose fault is this? Mine? Or Talats etc that instead of supporting RoC they cooperate with the foreign invador? If they want to return to legality then why don't they just say so and they instead continue to support illegalities?

I think you'll find that it is due to European Laws that the ROC is able to register their courts decisions in the UK so what is the pertenance of mentioning international law in this case? Are you going to copy and paste as an answer?

Do you think its right that a GC citizen wanted on serious charges in the UK can not be extradited by Cypriot law? Do you Piratis? Third time of asking. Are you incapable of answering direct questions, it is a major habit of yours?

I am not sure about the fairness of the UK judges. This will be shown by the Orams case. If they are shown to be unfair I believe that RoC has to protect its own citizens from an unfair judicial system. (maybe UK should also be invaded if their courts are unfair, what do you think?)

When have i ever stated that i support the as you say "illegal sale" of Greek Cypriot properties?

Now (again) by saying "illegal sale" in quotes. You really waste my time proving the obvious.

This is the supporter of the current polices of a government which wants to keep Turkish Cypriots in isolation and you dare lecture others about what is right and wrong.

So what is right? That TCs and Turkey can steal our land, violate our human rights and suffer no consequences?? Your idea of "right and wrong" is obviously screwed up. I guess you associate too much with criminals that get away with their crimes. The occupied areas are full with British fugitives. No doubt many of these crooks are your friends, isn't it stuballstu?
Or you will deny that you associate with crooks that illegally buy Greek Cypriot properties in the occupied areas?

[Viewpoint]

You are unbelievable Piratis you use the "occupation" in a way as if it just dropped out of the sky and you had nothing to do with it. You use this as a lame excuse to support your Hellenistic attitudes and majortity rules ideology. If you want to put things right then find ways to gain the TCs trust, thus enabling them to move away from Turkey and wanting a seperate country which is a direct response to your current mindset and pesisitence on issues which fuel division. You have to negotiate in goodfaith with TCs what you want for a united Cyprus otherwise you are your own worse enemy and your continued chanting will ensure we have stalemate for many many years to come.

[Piratis]

You are unbelievable Piratis you use the "occupation" in a way as if it just dropped out of the sky and you had nothing to do with it.

You are unbelievable for using the word occupation in quotes denying the fact that Turkey is illegally occupying 1/3rd of our island.

I hope stuballstu will not insist on keeping his eyes shut and he will see what is obvious - that most TCs are actively support the illegal occupation of Cyprus and the ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots.

You use this as a lame excuse to support your Hellenistic attitudes and majortity rules ideology.

What "hellenistic attitudes" are you taking about? Democracy was indeed invented by Greeks, but asking for democracy in the 21st century is not a "hellenistic attitude". If you have some other ideology, like apartheid and discriminations based on race, then you are the one who needs to excuse yourself and not me.

If you want to put things right then find ways to gain the TCs trust, thus enabling them to move away from Turkey and wanting a seperate country which is a direct response to your current mindset and pesisitence on issues which fuel division.

We clearly said that TCs (just like GCs) should have their 100% of legal, human and democratic rights. But how can we move forward with these principles when TCs and Turkey reject them and they instead insist on partition and illegality?
Who fuel division are those that want division. And we all know very well who those are. Don't you think is time for TCs to abandon their partition dream and accept to be equal citizens of on united Cyprus, instead of insisting on racist discrimination?

You have to negotiate in goodfaith with TCs what you want for a united Cyprus otherwise you are your own worse enemy and your continued chanting will ensure we have stalemate for many many years to come.

What we want - democracy, human rights for all, no racist discriminations, legality - has been rejected by Turkey and TCs 100s of times. Have you now changed your mind?

[miltiades]

Viewpoint , I agree that we have to establish trust with our Turkish Cypriot compatriots , there are many areas that will need to be re examined not least the fact that part of Cyprus is under occupation by a foreign power , that I'm sure you will agree its a fact .As far your definition of majority rule as an ideology , let me correct you that majority rule is the fundamental principle of democracy. After all Turkey exercises majority rule by denying the Kurdish minority the right to self determination. In my Cyprus the majority will be the Cypriots Greek and Turkish , whose political party obtains the largest percentage of votes. Until however such a situation becomes reality , certain power sharing agreements will have to be implemented regardless of majority or minority issues. The Turkish Cypriots must me made to feel that they are equal partners in Government with same rights as the Greek Cypriots , no less and no more.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint , I agree that we have to establish trust with our Turkish Cypriot compatriots , there are many areas that will need to be re examined not least the fact that part of Cyprus is under occupation by a foreign power , that I'm sure you will agree its a fact .As far your definition of majority rule as an ideology , let me correct you that majority rule is the fundamental principle of democracy. After all Turkey exercises majority rule by denying the Kurdish minority the right to self determination. In my Cyprus the majority will be the Cypriots Greek and Turkish , whose political party obtains the largest percentage of votes. Until however such a situation becomes reality , certain power sharing agreements will have to be implemented regardless of majority or minority issues. The Turkish Cypriots must me made to feel that they are equal partners in Government with same rights as the Greek Cypriots , no less and no more.

Could you kindly explain this to Piratis as he either does not want to know or is so blind that he will never open his eyes to the realities of our unique situation.