Cyprus-Forum.com

[stuballstu]

Piratis

Why do you want to go about European values and human rights. You continually say that Cyprus has all these. Really?

What about the students who were beat up by the police in the street who then went on to try and cover for it? If it had not been for someone capturing the footage on a mobile phone nothing more would have been done.

What about the policeman who owned a "nightclub" in Nicosia?

Why when a cypriot get stopped by the police in their car the first thing the police ask what does you father do?

Why does my TC friend get a parking ticked, admittedly for parking illegally, beside GC registered cars who do not get a ticket? Why was the ticket not issued in Turkish which is an official language of Cyprus?

These are just a couple of examples do you want me to go on. Dont preach to other about EU values based on respect and human rights. Those in glass houses should not throw stones.

Quote:
There is a huge difference Piratis. Tpap and PapaD are shortened version of Tassos Papadopoulos not a nickname like you have given "Ali Toilet". It shows a complete lack of respect for your fellow Cypriots. Who is showing their true colours now? With respect you are now acting like a PRATIS.


Tpap, PapaD etc are used by those that try to ridicule our president. If they don't show any respect to the one and only president of Cyprus, why should we show any kind of respect to the one that represents ethnic cleansing and illegality (the 2 elements that make up the pseudo "trnc")

Piratis you fine know that people shorten the name of the president to Tpap or PapD due the size of the name and the embarrassment over typos. It is NOT a nickname but an abbreviated one there is a difference can even someone as blinded as you sometimes appear to be see it? Calling Talat "Ali Toilet" is deflamatory and dis respectful to a fellow Cypriot. Ironic really when you want a settlement based on respect and human rights when you cant even respect the name of a democratically elected fellow cypriot. Pot calling the kettle black maybe? Maybe you should lead my example or is it a case of do as i say but not as i do?

Every country has its own laws. Cyprus laws are harmonized with EU and only minor details remain to be ironed out, just with every other new EU country. Because you import cars it doens't mean that "car imports" is one of the EU values.
The EU values are those of democracy, human rights, respect to international law etc.

EU laws and Directives supersede local laws on member states Piratis, it is part of the accession. "Minor details to be ironed out". Yeah right the UK request a Greek Cypriot's extradition under a European Arrest warrant to face serious criminal charges and the ROC says sorry our constitution will not allow us to extradite a Cypriot citizen! Respect to international law you call it?

[Kikapu]

If they insist not to respecting the human rights and the sovereignty of my country, then I wish them the worst, and we will work in that direction.

Sorry Kikapu, but the "pants down and bent" policies of Cyprus are over. If Turkey wants respect and support they have to show respect to us as well. If they choose to be our enemies by insisting on violating our sovereignty and human rights, then from us they should expect only the worst. I think thats only fair.

Piratis,

You know something, charity starts at home, so as soon as you start treating the TC's with respect, a political equal, and a comprehensive settlement plan, rather than the usual brokend down record player that repeats the same old tune all the time, then you would get the same respect in return.

Let me ask you a question. Just exactly, what Cypriot policies would be proposed by the future joint government by the TC's and GC's, that you're afraid of, that the TC's would block, if they had equal say in the policy making. If you don't have anything to hide, that you want, to be able to pass with a majority rule system, why do you think the TC's would block it, if in fact, it would be beneficial to most Cypriots, if not all, with a equal partner in decision making together. Are you really that power hungry, to satisfy your ego, over everyone returning to their land and property, to start putting their shattered lives back together. Is it really worth that much to you to have full political control over Cyprus, than returning to a civilized nation. Excuse me for saying this Piratis, but isn't your policy of power control is same as Makarios and other anti-constitution criminals from the past that brought all this problems in the first place. You know that, that system did not work, so why do you want to bang your head against the wall, and try to revive a burnt out idea from the past.

Cypriots can set an example as to how both communities can live and work and prosper together, to other politically struggling countries, earn respect from other countries because of our unique way of governing ourselves equally, despite having vast difference in the %'s of the community, that we all have an interest in our country. However, you want to stick to other countries principles of majority rule, over reality on the ground. You are the type that would want to hold your position by driving your car on the correct side of the road, but a drunk is coming from the other direction for a head on collision, and you're saying to yourself, "no, I'm in the right, I'm in my lane and I'm not moving over". The end result will be that you would have been in the right, but now you're dead. Give it some thought will you.!!

[webmagus]

Give it some thought will you.!!

You are asking too much. Try some threats and some offensive tactic, is the only way that this brainwashed pseudo democrat to have a mind reaction.

[Piratis]

Why do you want to go about European values and human rights. You continually say that Cyprus has all these. Really?

Cyprus has all these at around the EU average. A lot of improvements can be made, like it is the case with all countries. Tell me from which country you are, and lets see how perfect your country is Mr. European.

However no EU country, including Cyprus, does not mass violate the human rights of 100s of thousands of people, or it illegally occupies territories of another country.

Are you seriously considering as equal the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey which results to the violation of the human rights of 100s of thousands of people for decades as well as the violation of international law, with the case that some policemen had misbehaved and were consequently punished??? How many more cheap excuses are you going to give to the crimes of Turkey stuballstu??

Why when a cypriot get stopped by the police in their car the first thing the police ask what does you father do?

Why does my TC friend get a parking ticked, admittedly for parking illegally, beside GC registered cars who do not get a ticket? Why was the ticket not issued in Turkish which is an official language of Cyprus?

I was never asked by a policeman what I or my father does, and I received several parking and other tickets.
So I guess I must be either a foreigner or a Turkish Cypriot. Or you are just using some isolated cases to present the GCs as bad as possible and argue that they therefore deserve to have their human rights mass violated by Turkey simply because of their race. How many lame excuses are you going to tell us, really?

Piratis you fine know that people shorten the name of the president to Tpap or PapD due the size of the name and the embarrassment over typos. It is NOT a nickname but an abbreviated one there is a difference can even someone as blinded as you sometimes appear to be see it?

Sure, sure, you and many others show the outermost respect to Papadopoulos. Whatever.

Calling Talat "Ali Toilet" is deflamatory and dis respectful to a fellow Cypriot. Ironic really when you want a settlement based on respect and human rights when you cant even respect the name of a democratically elected fellow cypriot. Pot calling the kettle black maybe? Maybe you should lead my example or is it a case of do as i say but not as i do?

Democratically elected??? Ethnically cleansing the majority of the people of an area, illegally bringing in your own, and then getting elected by them is called democracy now??? What he represents is not the TC community, since he was not elected as such (Leader of TC community). He has elected as the leader of the pseudo "trnc" and he therefore represents this "trnc" and everything that "trnc" stands for which is nothing more that ethnic cleansing and illegalities, the 2 factors that created and maintain this pseudo state of Turkey.
It is time that the TCs alone (without the settlers and Turkey) elect their leader that can take the place that legally belongs to him, which is not a "president" or "prime minister" of an illegal state in Cyprus, but that of vice president of RoC.

EU laws and Directives supersede local laws on member states Piratis, it is part of the accession. "Minor details to be ironed out". Yeah right the UK request a Greek Cypriot's extradition under a European Arrest warrant to face serious criminal charges and the ROC says sorry our constitution will not allow us to extradite a Cypriot citizen! Respect to international law you call it?

So why the Orams case was not automatically applied in the UK then? Apparently the EU agreements are not so straight forward as you think.
Also do not confuse international law, with EU. The two are different. The first should be followed by every country, while the second is part of the agreements that EU countries have between them.

[Piratis]

You know something, charity starts at home, so as soon as you start treating the TC's with respect, a political equal, and a comprehensive settlement plan, rather than the usual brokend down record player that repeats the same old tune all the time, then you would get the same respect in return.

Have I ever asked the disrespect of any human or other rights of Turkish Cypriots? On the contrary, the "broken record" as you call it, simply asks for the respect of the human rights of all and their equality without racist discriminations.
Do we get this in return? No we don't. What we get in return is that GCs are second category human beings and they should therefore not complain if their human and democratic rights are violated.

Let me ask you a question. Just exactly, what Cypriot policies would be proposed by the future joint government by the TC's and GC's, that you're afraid of, that the TC's would block, if they had equal say in the policy making. If you don't have anything to hide, that you want, to be able to pass with a majority rule system, why do you think the TC's would block it, if in fact, it would be beneficial to most Cypriots, if not all, with a equal partner in decision making together.

First of all it is a matter of principle. Democracy can not be sacrificed just to satisfy the demands of a group of people. If it was in this way, then why your "trnc" doesn't currently give 50% power to the Greek Cypriots that continue to live there?
Secondly, disproportionate power would mean disproportionate everything. If the TCs believe that they deserve 50% power, who is to tell that tomorrow they will not believe that they deserve 50% of the budget, or 50% of the governmental positions?
And if they ask for such things then what would GCs do? Accept them, or reject them, reach a deadlock, and eventually a brake up, which this time would mean 2 separate states - the dream of TCs coming true. Even your own Serdar Denctash has warned us that such kind of loose confederation would simply be the stepping stone to partition, following the examples of Czechoslovakia and Serbia-Montenegro.

Are you really that power hungry

I ask for what proportionately belongs to me as a Cypriot citizen, which is exactly as much as it belongs to you. Is it me the power hungry, or you for asking 4.5 times more votes than me simply because I am Greek Cypriot and you are Turkish Cypriot?

You are the type that would want to hold your position by driving your car on the correct side of the road, but a drunk is coming from the other direction for a head on collision, and you're saying to yourself, "no, I'm in the right, I'm in my lane and I'm not moving over". The end result will be that you would have been in the right, but now you're dead. Give it some thought will you.!!

So what you are telling me now is that I am right, but you are drunk, so I better move out of the way or we are going to crash and both get killed?

I hope that this is not the case and that logic will in the end prevail for the good of all of us.

If we try to build something new again on the basis of separation and racist discrimination of Cypriot citizens, then we will never have a true unity, we will never have a strong common Cypriot identity. What we will continue to have is two separate communities with conflicting interests and this will lead with mathematical precision to yet another crash.

[Kikapu]

First of all it is a matter of principle. Democracy can not be sacrificed just to satisfy the demands of a group of people.

So what you are telling me now is that I am right, but you are drunk, so I better move out of the way or we are going to crash and both get killed?

I hope that this is not the case and that logic will in the end prevail for the good of all of us.

If we try to build something new again on the basis of separation and racist discrimination of Cypriot citizens, then we will never have a true unity, we will never have a strong common Cypriot identity. What we will continue to have is two separate communities with conflicting interests and this will lead with mathematical precision to yet another crash.

Piratis,

I do not disagree with most of the things you have said, however, Democracy comes in different shape and sizes, so therefore you will not be sacrificing anything, as long as both sides agree on the principles on how to govern the country. You see it as, anything other than a simple majority rule is sacrificing on Democracy. Sorry, I do not agree.

OK, for the sake of argument, the TC'S are the drunk driver heading for a head on collision, and you're absolutely right in your demand to have control of your lane, but the drunk will not move over either, so at the end, the history books will read, "if one of those dummies had given way on their principles and compromised, we would have had 'One Cyprus' as suppose to 'Two Broken' Parts", just like their cars and their lives.

Many people have died in conflicts over the years, all over the world. Some noble causes and others on plain stupidity by sticking to their "principles". As a result, both sides will get what they want, or don't want, but regardless, they will get their own "majority rule", only it will not be in One Cyprus, but rather Two. Rather than work towards eliminating the "North and South" tittles, it will be cemented permanently.

I wish you all good luck in your own seperated States, and if I stay away from Cyprus for another 42 years, it would be better than live amongst "Tunnel Vision" people, who can't seem to see further than their noses. At least you would have all kept your PRINCIPLES intact.

[miltiades]

Just came across an interview given by Mr Talat to The Anatolia press. I find it quite annoying that the wishes of the majority expressed clearly at the referendum on the Annan plan should be misconstrued and considered as a vote against a solution.Mr Talat is a well educated and knowledgeable Cypriot.He can not possibly say that MY REJECTION OF THE ANNAN PLAN indicates that I do not want a solution.
Mr Talat takes pride in the fact that the Turkish Cypriots accepted the plan and therefore considers that they want a solution . The vote was not based on "DO YOU WANT A SLOUTION " but" DO YOU ACCEPT THIS PLAN AS A SOLUTION " Personally I detest presentations and statements that distort , quite intentionally , the truth. And the truth Mr Tatat is that the overwhelming majority of your compatriots did not trust that Turkey would honour its commitments , based on Turkeys Curriculum vitae.
Mr Talat please note that what you refer to as the Greek Cypriot administration , the ENTIRE WORLD refers to as the R.o.C ,

Here is part of this interview.
"When asked whether his views about Cyprus problem have changed since he started his term in office as President, Talat said, ''in the past, I had always warned that Cyprus problem should be solved till Copenhagen summit, and Turkish Cypriots should prove that they want solution. I had also said that if Greek Cypriots don't want solution, it must be shown to the whole world. Now, it is revealed that I was telling the truth. I saw that former President Rauf Denktas was not right. Denktas was claiming that Greek Cypriots would not want solution. But this is not important. The important thing is to show it (that Greek Cypriots do not want solution) to the whole world.''

Noting that now the whole world knows that Greek Cypriot leader Tassos Papadopoulos does not want solution, Talat said upon another question that a change in Greek Cypriot administration in a moderate way can ease the issues in Cyprus, but a leadership change is up to Greek Cypriots. ""

[miltiades]

I would also like to highlight the following opening verse of the T C O T T R O N C
This " constitution is not a pro solution step but on the contrary the "TRNC " wants very much to be part of what it proudly describes its motherland that it considers it self to inseparable.
We have a long way to go , but we will get there and most certainly our Turkish Cypriot compatriots will have to re examine their leaderships ' ideology.
This constitution is an insult to ALL Cypriots because it is suggesting that Cyprus and Cypriots are not independent but part of a foreign power.Mr Talat and his puppies will have to do better that this to convince the International community that they are CYPRIOTS and not Turkish mainlanders occupying Cyprus. I as a Cypriot have the right of my Island , Mr Talat as "an inseparable part of Turkey should piss off to his motherland "I wonder how many other nations consider Turkey to be a great nation. Apart of course from "TRNC " Further more this " Constitution " is evidence that the puppet regime is not a Cypriot one .


""""THE CONSTITUTION OF THE TURKISH REPUBLIC

OF NORTHERN CYPRUS


PREAMBLE

Whereas the Turkish Cypriot People is an inseparable part of the great Turkish Nation which lived independent and fought for its rights and liberties all along its history; and

Whereas the Turkish Cypriot People, in the face of events directed against its national existence and right to life, since 1878 when it was broken away from its motherland, which were intensified especially after 1955 and took the form of armed terrorism, aggression and suppression, has organised its resistance as a mature community in unity and integrity; ""

[cypezokyli]

i perfectly agree with you miltiadis.
i have a comment from you though.
using the same line of argument , the national anthem of the RoC is in only one language , it is the same anthem of a foreign state , it refers to the struggles of a foreign state, it was written and composed by foreigners , it doesnot refer to the the "sacred values" of cypriots, but to the sacred values of a foreign people, and to make it short i am wondering if this shows are (comparably more ) dedication to the cypriot cause.

....
btw, there no great and non-great nations. unless you give us some criteria on how you define that

[miltiades]

cypezokily , the national anthem of Greece is a FOREIGN anthem and I refuse to recognise it as the Cyprus anthem.My country is Cyprus .
Also the national anthem of the "trnc" is also that of a foreign nation .
One major difference is that the R.o.C does not call it self the Greek Cypriot Republic ,neither does it have a constitution drafted by a foreign nation , such as the ridiculous one by the "TRNC" , Please take time to read it and then tell me if this "constitution " is not anti Cyprus.The R.o.C does not silence me and thousands like me who openly refer to our island as Cyprus belonging to Cypriots all Cypriots
and freely call for the removal of the Greek flag from churches and other institutions and substituting with the Cyprus flag. My argument is that there is only one cause that unites all Cypriots , and it is staring us in the face , Cyprus.
I will not comment on what makes a nation great or not , frankly I'm not really interested whether Turkey or Greece are great nations or not. All I can say here is that the criteria for measuring a nation's greatness is that nation's ability to look after its citizens human rights and preserve freedom of speech in all matters , political , religious , educational or whatever else.
Back to the "constitution " now , when you have time to read it please let me have your comments , since I believe you are a genuine Cypriot