Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kartal_Aetos]

piratis, you fail to see why the turkish army is still there...

i have never ever supported killing of innocent GC's...i have never ever supported the killing or suffering of any human being...

i dont even follow religion because i believe it divides and causes too much suffering between the people due to differences...how could something so divine cause so much pain?

but, the turkish army can not leave until the security of the TC's is guaranteed...and right now it isn't...it isn't even close unfortunately

[zoppovortoi]

Piratis I’m just saying the truth and I’m not hiding behind my finger. The Akritas plan is speaking alone. It was form an illegal organization with the acceptance of the legal government, this is ridiculous and barbaric.

[Piratis]

but, the turkish army can not leave until the security of the TC's is guaranteed...and right now it isn't...it isn't even close unfortunately

How much more security could the TCs have from being equal Cypriot and European union citizens in an EU country? Do they have more security now being under the rule of the Turkish army?

It is not a matter of security Kartal. It is a matter that TCs do not accept to be just equal cyptiot and EU citizens and they want to use the Turkish army as a way to achieve more than what they deserve on the expense of Greek Cypriots.

And let me ask you something: Even if we assume that TCs still feel insecure for some reasons. Does it mean that we should make TCs feeling secure by violating the human and democratic rights of GCs?

It is like the example I gave some time ago: That I feel insecure when driving in the road because you can never be sure that an accident will not happen. Should I now demand that nobody should be allowed to drive when I do to minimize the risk of an accident?

Therefore security for TCs can be easily achieved within the principles of human rights and democracy. Asking for anything beyond that it is clear that the security issue is merely used as an excuse and nothing more.

[zoppovortoi]

The TC’s are over 50 years in a jail if the Turkish army will go with no solution and with the racism that exist our economic shark’s will eat them and make them again slaves and second class citizens and this is the truth.

There are no angels between us.

In fact there are no angels at all.

The GC angel people have stolen 1.5 billion $ from the Serbia people with the acceptance o president Kliridis and the involvement of Tassos Papadopoulos. The same government allow to big sharks to drink the blood of innocent people in the Stock Market scandal.

I mean wake up men there is no angels between us and your dreams are not negotiable with reality.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Therefore security for TCs can be easily achieved within the principles of human rights and democracy. Asking for anything beyond that it is clear that the security issue is merely used as an excuse and nothing more.

It is not a matter of security Kartal. It is a matter that TCs do not accept to be just equal cyptiot and EU citizens and they want to use the Turkish army as a way to achieve more than what they deserve on the expense of Greek Cypriots.

This attitude is totally unacceptable and cause more misunderstanding between our communities, we do not trust GCs so there has to be many safety valves in place to ensure what happened in the past does not ever happen again and the security of TCs against GCs and vice versa has to be one of the issues paramount which if not addressed correctly will stop any solution what so ever. Ignoring it or just saying we are using it as an excuse will not make it go away Pitatis, you have to find ways to solve it.

[growuptcs]

zoppovortoi: The same government allow to big sharks to drink the blood of innocent people in the Stock Market scandal.

Everyone lost money in the market around the world and pointing the fingers at the GC government is wrong. Pure propaganda big guy. Every government around the world got a peice of that.

[Piratis]

This attitude is totally unacceptable and cause more misunderstanding between our communities, we do not trust GCs so there has to be many safety valves in place to ensure what happened in the past does not ever happen again and the security of TCs against GCs and vice versa has to be one of the issues paramount which if not addressed correctly will stop any solution what so ever. Ignoring it or just saying we are using it as an excuse will not make it go away Pitatis, you have to find ways to solve it.

Viewpoint, I asked many times: Does it require from us to sacrifice our human and democratic rights in order for you to trust us?

I have many times said that the needs of both communities should be accommodated in the best way possible within the limits of human rights, democracy and the other universal principles that exist in all other democratic (especially EU) countries.

You don't trust GCs and GCs do not trust you. However trust is optional. Respect is required. You can not violate the human rights of somebody just because you don't trust him!! This goes both ways. Would you like it if in the future the balance of power shifts and we tell you that you have to be ethnically cleansed from Cyprus because we do not trust you?

Therefore I would be more than glad to discuss on how we can accommodate the fears of both sides within the above limits.

If however you do not accept this, then it is obvious that you are using these "fears" as an excuse to gain on our loss and violate our human and democratic rights.

[miltiades]

Can a pigeon English speaker kindly translate , or am I the only thicko here who doesnt make head or tale of the following.
Zoppovoros wrote :
"""The TC’s are over 50 years in a jail if the Turkish army will go with no solution and with the racism that exist our economic shark’s will eat them and make them again slaves and second class citizens and this is the truth.
There are no angels between us.
In fact there are no angels at all.
The GC angel people have stolen 1.5 billion $ from the Serbia people with the acceptance o president Kliridis and the involvement of Tassos Papadopoulos. The same government allow to big sharks to drink the blood of innocent people in the Stock Market scandal.
I mean wake up men there is no angels between us and your dreams are not negotiable with reality """

[Viewpoint]

Piratis lets get one thing clear, no TCs wants to intentionally scrafice anyones human or democratic rights, please take this as standard and refrain from saying the same thing all the time. The trick is how to we establish a balance? how do we get to where we want go? concentrate on this and you will see that TCs will suprise you as the issues you feel are important to you eg army, land, freedom of movement, settlers TCs are in general very flexbile on, the issues we are sensative on should also be addressed with a fleixble approach and not just be pushed to one side as being unimportant, this aggrivates us and makes us feel you are only interested in getting what you want under the guise of majority rule, human and democratic rights which comes in many shapes and sizes. Its not a rigid as you try to make it.

[Kartal_Aetos]

my friend miltiades, what our friend zoppovortoi ment was that the GC government will treat the TC's unfairly should the Turkish military leave without a solution coming to place first...we will be 'punished' by the RoC government as they still scapegoat us for what happened and the Orthodox church will be more than happy to preach the evils of the muslim TC community...this is a possibility...and a big possibility with the amount of greek nationalism floating about in RoC...what us as TC's want is as viewpoint puts it, safety valves where our future safety and rights is guaranteed...

piratis, we are not asking for any of our GC brothers to sacrifice their human rights...but we must have equal say as a community to the GC community...if a frenzy of greek nationalism is kicked up again by a GC party...we all know there are political parties in RoC who still hail ENOSIS and EOKA a worthy cause and colour its fighters in heroeic titles...they will never give up the fight for ENOSIS and will never admit that it was a mistake where the GC community disregarded the TC community...

god forbid what would happen if such a party was elected to power and had majority vote...they could start a struggle for ENOSIS without any TC having a say in the matter as we would have minority status...

until we can be assured this will never happen, how is our future guaranteed? atleast right now our existence is guaranteed...it may not be a particularly wealthy or the best future...but it is a future none the less where we have a say in our governing...