Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kartal_Aetos]

i didnt know there would also be an army from greece...the propaganda got to me and my GC friends who insisted there would be no greek army under the annan plan...just a turkish one...see whats up with all the propaganda? lol....

what if we had...now this is gna sound crazy...A CYPRIOT army...

[Viewpoint]

All this brotherly love is typical of Cypriots living abroad in foreign lands under their rules and regulations which are applicable to everyone be they Indian, Pakistani, Turk, French etc. Its a totally a different ball game when you live on the island and live reality in its full glory, where you can be arrested for being an architect or commit a crime in the north and run south to escape capture because compatriots refuse to work together. Where oranges from the north are not allowed to be be shipped from the south for some stupid reason.
Man you are talking full on Cypriotism level 10 while we are still trying to get our leaders to talk at level 1.

Let me say that the main , and maybe the one condition that influenced my rejection of the plan , was the extension to Turkey of the right to intervene where ever in Cyprus it chose. AND BELIEVE ME IM CONVINCED THAT HAD THE PLAN BEEN ACCEPTED IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TIME BOMB WAITING TO EXPLODE.

For me the number one issue is the security one. Let us have Europe guarantying the implementation of the agreement ,

Firstly the EU does not have a functional army so they cannot even protect themselves. Secondly TCs do not trust EU they do not keep their word and would be tied up in to much red tape to immedaitely take action to defuse an explosive situation.

How about Turkey guranteeing only the north state? or how about a safety valve to say if either side do not adhere or abuse agreements or attack or cause internal conflict we go to referendum like Serbia and Montenegro to vote on final division? there ar emany alternatives but one can be much worse that the other.
Imo I would accept no gurantee from Turkey (replaced by UN) on the basis that if the GCs abused TCs rights in any fashion or form we would be granted the right to split forever as 2 recognized seperate countries. Would you agree to this?

[zoppovortoi]

Let me say that the main , and maybe the one condition that influenced my rejection of the plan , was the extension to Turkey of the right to intervene where ever in Cyprus it chose. AND BELIEVE ME IM CONVINCED THAT HAD THE PLAN BEEN ACCEPTED IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TIME BOMB WAITING TO EXPLODE.

Greece also have the same rights but only if UN gives them the green light. This security valve was on the plan but also the Europe was quarantining the plan.

I can’t see any better agreement from this one.

[miltiades]

Kartal_Aetos , I often go for a drink at a bar /restaurant in Streatham called the Bar 61 , owned by on old Cypriot mate and his three sons. Mehmet , the father speaks fluent Greek and we converse in Greek , he came to the UK after the war and he never stops telling me stories of the past , he is older than me , in his mid 70s but a real Old timer Cypriot . Unfortunately because of my wife's health , she is bedridden , I cant get out much in the evenings but your are welcome to give me a call and come down the showroom , any time you are free.
If you visit our site www.devonscatering.co.uk (here we go advertising again ) you will get all the details where we are etc.
Regards
Miltiades (my real second name )

[Kartal_Aetos]

viewpoint, there is always the UN army and that should be the only guarantor of the cypriot people...Turkey and Greece will always have a hidden agenda...Greece - join all the islands greeks had an involvement in to Greece under the 'Megali' ideal and Turkey - to protect the south coast of turkey with a base off-shore...and because of this, if either one had to intervene they would be in no rush to fix problems (like TRNC under the administration of Denktas)

you're right, we are trying to get our leaders to communicate on a lower level than to what the actual people are communicating at...but its getting better and we must not lose hope

[Kartal_Aetos]

Miltiades, i hope she gets well soon...i will be sure to visit you one day...

Marios, the problem with having motherland guarantors is that they end up having an involvement in the country...we want a clean break from them...one of the biggest problems with having them on the island is that they stir up feelings of motherland nationalism when really we should be creating feelings of Cypriot patriotism, not greek or turkish...it would be very hard to infuse the people with separatist forces on the island

[zoppovortoi]

Marios, the problem with having motherland guarantors is that they end up having an involvement in the country...we want a clean break from them...one of the biggest problems with having them on the island is that they stir up feelings of motherland nationalism when really we should be creating feelings of Cypriot patriotism, not greek or turkish...it would be very hard to infuse the people with separatist forces on the island

I agree with you but this in not going to prevent me from voting yes again.

And I’ve to say again what the plan was absolutely safe for both sides.

[Bananiot]

It amazes every time to see that the truth has to fight hard in order to surface. The fact of the matter is that the solution is not a kind of buffet where you choose the one most palatable. Our options are very much restricted because of the serious mistakes and crimes we committed, basically after independence in 1959. The GC side embarked on byzantine type policies to achieve enosis despite having signed the London - Zurich agreement that led to the formation of our state. This was done at the highest level of government and paramilitary organisations that were formed with the blessings of Makarios by Lissarides, Yiorgatzis and sampson. They aimed at "friendly" persuating the TC's to accept the inevidable, that is, enosis. On the other hand, the fanatics on the TC side exploited the situation remarkably well to advance the plans of partition. AKEL, who had broad support within the TC communiry, once again betrayed everyone by siding with Makarios and jumping onto the enosis wagon. Thus, even the moderate Turkish Cypriots were thrown into the warm embraces of the extremists in the TC community and any voices of sanity were quickly silenced. The events that followed are only very well known to everyone.

Thus, by proclaiming that we do not want just any solution, we may sound reasonable to the unsuspecting but to someone that knows the problem we sound pretty much pathetic. We call for a European solution. No one has ever bothered to explain to us what this solution entails and how to go about achieving it, besides the general staff. We want a better plan than the Annan plan, we cry out loud. Yet, since 1963 we rejected seven plans in total, some much better than the A plan. Then, when we had the opportunity to better the Annan plan we failed to negotiate Annan plan No 3 and purposedly worked hard to make a worse version of the plan so that we could get a loud "no".

I said in the begining that our options are very limited. An agreed solution can only be based on bizonal, bicommunal federation and we can blame our past for this for as much as we like, but things cannot change. In real life, mistakes are paid for. Especially when you are a midget who pretended to be goliath and tried to play ball with the big boys. Annan plan was not ideal but it provided the basis for a new start which if we took we could have made things work with good faith, patience and prudence. We rejected it and in effect we voted for the Turkish army to stay for ever in Cyprus and for our country to be partitioned for good. Unless you believe that Papadopoulos will solve a predominantly political issue with his stupid legalistic jargon.

[zoppovortoi]

It amazes every time to see that the truth has to fight hard in order to surface. The fact of the matter is that the solution is not a kind of buffet where you choose the one most palatable. Our options are very much restricted because of the serious mistakes and crimes we committed, basically after independence in 1959. The GC side embarked on byzantine type policies to achieve enosis despite having signed the London - Zurich agreement that led to the formation of our state. This was done at the highest level of government and paramilitary organisations that were formed with the blessings of Makarios by Lissarides, Yiorgatzis and sampson. They aimed at "friendly" persuating the TC's to accept the inevidable, that is, enosis. On the other hand, the fanatics on the TC side exploited the situation remarkably well to advance the plans of partition. AKEL, who had broad support within the TC communiry, once again betrayed everyone by siding with Makarios and jumping onto the enosis wagon. Thus, even the moderate Turkish Cypriots were thrown into the warm embraces of the extremists in the TC community and any voices of sanity were quickly silenced. The events that followed are only very well known to everyone.

The problem was started at 1930 were the TC were slaves to our will (and some toppouzo patriots loved this and they seeking something like this).

They have proposed us a new constitution and we did not accept it and we’ve choose (our Church) a unification with Greece.

After that the UK was proposed as the Harting plan was actually giving us the unification but after a period of ten years. We didn’t accept it even if Greece was pushing as with every possible way to accept it.

After that it was the Atchenson plan and we did not accept it as well.

Everyone was wrong and we were right because we were the sons of god.

The Greece politicians was wrong and our paranoid church was right because of our god given rights

After our obvious madness we’ve come to the Zurich agreement and even then we didn’t keep the agreement and we’ve create (our democratically government) paramilitary organizations (like the apes did before some hundreds years). We were out dated for some centuries. Like we are now some hundreds years away from being Europeans.

Thus, by proclaiming that we do not want just any solution, we may sound reasonable to the unsuspecting but to someone that knows the problem we sound pretty much pathetic. We call for a European solution. No one has ever bothered to explain to us what this solution entails and how to go about achieving it, besides the general staff. We want a better plan than the Annan plan, we cry out loud. Yet, since 1963 we rejected seven plans in total, some much better than the A plan. Then, when we had the opportunity to better the Annan plan we failed to negotiate Annan plan No 3 and purposedly worked hard to make a worse version of the plan so that we could get a loud "no".

I can’t agree more with you on that and maybe I’ll open a topic about how we have made the plan worst.

[zoppovortoi]

Unless you believe that Papadopoulos will solve a predominantly political issue with his stupid legalistic jargon.

August 1977

Ezekias Papaioanou about Papadopoulos:

He is unscrupulous.

His policy in the Cyprus problem is the double unification. The division of Cyprus. He is one unscrupulous fanatic anticommunist were in the first change if he would be able to climb up to the president chair he will hit our party(Akel).