Cyprus-Forum.com

[zoppovortoi]

What happens now? On May 1, 2004, Cyprus along with nine other countries becomes a full member of the E. U. as an independent country, a portion of whose territory is illegally occupied by a foreign power. The European laws will not apply to the occupied area. Cypriot President Tassos Papadopoulos has pledged that the Cypriot government would take measures to ensure that Turkish Cypriots would get the benefits they would have if they were in the E.U. Under present E. U. Law, the accession of a new country must be approved by all members. Therefore, Cyprus is in a very strong position and could exercise a veto to Turkey’s membership, unless the Turkish troops are withdrawn. THAT IS THE SOLUTION.""

I’m afraid what this is just nationalistic propaganda that point as a solution the majority minority crap and rejects the Anan plan philosophy. I’m afraid what this is actually the solution and we can call it with the real name. DIVISION.

There is nothing worthy to discuss about, it would only bring irritation.

This is the positions of EVROKO and can only be characterized as unreal.

I can agree only about the 29% issue (the number 4).

About the settlers according to UN information there was 115 000 and the 70 000 was going.(i've just check it)

[miltiades]

Viewpoint ., I fully appreciate the very valid points you make concerning living in the UK without security fears that you say you naturally will experience if dominated by the G/Cs. Precisely what I and thousands of Cypriots , including our friend Katal_Aetos , do not want our fellow Cypriots to experience. I don't want my two and a half year old grand daughter to grow up in a nation dominated by either the Gcs or the Turks , but a nation ruled by the Cypriots . I'm not that naive to expect a solution along this lines to morrow. Let me say that the main , and maybe the one condition that influenced my rejection of the plan , was the extension to Turkey of the right to intervene where ever in Cyprus it chose. AND BELIEVE ME IM CONVINCED THAT HAD THE PLAN BEEN ACCEPTED IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TIME BOMB WAITING TO EXPLODE.
Others would have had objections far wider that the security issue , and in no time and once again , the inter communal strife would commence.
I don't have the magic wand to waive and bring about a new solution. All I say is let us work around the Annan plan but let us remove the clauses that would eventually lead to a breakdown. For me the number one issue is the security one. Let us have Europe guarantying the implementation of the agreement , and let us not drive Cyprus into bankruptcy with the compensation issue.
I again reiterate my position and that of thousands upon thousands of Cypriots that wish to promote Cypriotness and bury eventualy the motherland issue that has been the cancer of our society.

[zoppovortoi]

I have to say something and about the refuges issue.

I’ve study the plan and many analyses from experts and I’ve come to the conclusion what the nationalist have made a dark wall over the truth.

90 000 refuges would have the right to return on their home under GC authority.

The most of the rest refugees (and maybe all) have also the right to go back to their homes.

Let’s make some examples to see how stupid we are.

The Kerinia was 9 000 population before the invasion and according to the plan ALL the GC’s from Kerinia have the right to return with the 1/3 of the population right.

I don’t now exactly the population of Kerinia now (maybe some one can help about this) but I guess what is over 50 000 the 1/3 of that is 16 500. Every one was able to return.

About the 1/3 of the properties issue:

Let’s say another one example in the worst situation:

Some one have a house of 60m was have the right to claim his house if the today habitant was not made any changes to the house (if he was able to the use 1/3 of the population right to return, in the most cases everyone could return) .In the worst case if the habitant have build other house on the old one he still have the right to claim land and build other house.

If we see the plan with out any psychology mirrors was balanced and it was giving the right to the 90% (at least, I believe 100% but I have to make my own analysis here to prove that) of the refugees to go back.

The immediately return crap of nationalist is unreal because there will be many problems like is absolutely understandable from everyone who can use his mind to think.

-------------

The cancer is the religions and the whole thing started in 1930.

About the security issue I’ll make an analysis.

[Kartal_Aetos]

for me, the main problem with the annan plan was that some parts would be controlled by GC's and some parts controlled by TC's...how is this unity??? it is nothing more than an agreement of free movement of goods services and people between two states...another EU...

only a certain amount of TC's are allowed to move in to the GC areas and only a certain amount of GC's allowed to move in to the TC areas...where is the unity? this is controlled immigration...

also, if the turkish army are going to stay on the island, surely this would cause unease for our GC compatriots when they have no similar army guarding their backs...wouldn't a UN or NATO presence on the island be more impartial instead?

viewpoint, i have continuously made a point of the majority minority status proposed...u are right to feel concerned about this...i too am concerned with it as a TC living in london...afterall, we wouldn't want a greek nationalist party coming to power with majority rule and then attempting to execute ENOSIS yet again...another concern with this is being treated as a 2nd class citizen in our own countries by certain officials abusing their powers...many TC's have experienced this in RoC as well as me...afterall, individualism exists and we can not change the minds of all individuals...people who have been fed too much propaganda will never forgive the other side...

what i would like to explain to some GC's on this forum is that not all Turks in cyprus are evil...most were assigned positions in TRNC after the war to keep our infrastructure going like doctors, engineers, technicians etc. and they have been on the island and have shared the cypriot dream along with the rest of us for the past 20-30 years...these are the Turks who would be allowed to stay...and i believe they have a right to stay...the rest who have entered the island with no reason apart from giving Denktas votes should be kicked out...and there are many of them...how else has denktas managed to stay in power for so long with so much of TRNC against his views?

i do agree with my friend miltiades that we must work around the annan plan...it has good foundations that guarantee our peaceful existence but does need minor adjustments...

maybe one day we can educate our youth to embrace and love our cypriot compatriots just the same as myself and miltiades instead of feeding them religious and fascist propaganda...stop telling lies about who killed who...i would love to hear the story of my grandfathers GC friends warning him of the EOKA's plans to attack the TC's of morphou and in turn saving my families lives...sure, the turkish army did stop EOKA from killing TC's...but its heart warming and hope bringing stories just as that which makes me never give up hope of reuniting our island...Greece is full of albanians and macedonians who proudly call themselves greek and turkey's full of russians, georgians, greeks, arabs and even kurds who proudly call themselves turkish...and we can not call ourselves cypriots we must call ourselves turkish or greek so to not lose our so called 'national identity' (which is cypriot above all else, not greek or turkish)...excuse my french but b*ll*cks to that

[Kartal_Aetos]

i dont understand, marios...do u mean every1 is able to return to their homes?

[miltiades]

Kartal_Aetos my warmest congratulations on an excellent post . Where in London do you live ? You may know I'm in South London where by business is www.devonscatering.co.uk

[Kartal_Aetos]

im in Oakwood, North London miltiades...maybe one day when i am in south london i will come visit you we can go for a coffee and play some tavli my real name is Ethem by the way

its an honor to meet an intellectual patriot of our island...we have shared many discussions together on the forum all of which have been pleasant and all of your comments to which i have great respect for...

[zoppovortoi]

Let’s suppose what the legal population of TC’s (and the 45 000 settlers) living in Cyprus is 150 000 then 50 000 have the right to return.

But there are 50 000 more TC was left Cyprus and they could come back then other 17 000 have the right to return.

All most 165 000 could go back and in the main areas like Kerinia the 100% could go back.

This numbers if to big because the most of the refugees they have build there life here so everyone who wanted could go back.

Even the 29% have its own logic if we see it through the 1/3 thing.

Because we were have the right of the 30% of the land of the TC community and because we are richer and we could even purchase a much bigger percentage.

And in the opposite situation the TC were not having the ability in the GC community to have such a big number because they were and they are poorer.

The plan was balanced and the demonetization of it will not bring us anything better.

[Kartal_Aetos]

oh yeh, that part i definitely agree is equal...dont believe the propaganda started by nationalists who dont wanna see TCs walkin down the same street as them...

[zoppovortoi]

also, if the turkish army are going to stay on the island, surely this would cause unease for our GC compatriots when they have no similar army guarding their backs...wouldn't a UN or NATO presence on the island be more impartial instead?

There were staying only 600 persons symbolically from Greece and other 600 from Turkey under the un authority with light army.

I don’t see any problem except the psychology one and I agree what this could be deleted from the plan.

It will be a god given gift if we can delete Greece and Turkey (and maybe UK ) from the plan.