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Cyprus EU accession complicated the process for a solution?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby zoppovortoi » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:30 pm

Democracy: The Reality Show

By Peter Pappas

One of the most dispiriting aspects of the Greek and Greek Cypriot media coverage of the April 24 referendum has been to witness how quickly democracy falls victim to fear-mongering and contrived hysteria, often clearly racist. If the American media celebrate consensus, the Greek media wallow in contention. And if the American media, even in their role as “critics” of a particular administration, serve as bipartisan integrationists and unifiers, the Greek media, even when they’re willing to consider the merits of democratic difference, are organs of partisan rancor, systemic conflict, and political unilateralism. The advantage to a partisan press, of course, is that it concentrates and channels opposition, without which democracy cannot function. This was well-known in the US during most of the Republic’s history, but was forgotten in the postwar ideological settlement that established the Cold War, security-state consensus. Thus, at a time when George W. Bush is pushing the envelope of fundamental(ist) constitutional revision, more and more Americans are finally waking up (admittedly in a cold sweat) to the ancient virtues of democratic partisanship.

On the other hand, in a society given to an almost innate sense of despair, victimization, and, yes, tragedy (very, very different from America’s self-image), partisanship invariably leads to a conspiratorial view of the world, to an even more acute sense of persecution, and, worst of all, to that distinctive malaise of all ancient and, therefore by definition, “fallen” peoples: a heightened sense of superiority leavened by an even sharper sense of imperial loss and even decadence at the hands of the new — and invariably “barbarian” — rulers.

It is a commonplace of linguistics that a language is a dialect with a flag and an army. The president of Cyprus, Tassos Papadopoulos, in “explaining” his opposition to the Annan plan told his fellow ethnics that, as he had “received a state,” he had no intention of “handing over a community.” What does it mean to “receive a state,” however? Apparently, mostly exercising arbitrary political authority verging on repression. I quote from a report by Judy Dempsey (“EU hits at perceived ban from Greek Cypriot TV”) in the Financial Times of April 20:

Top European Union and United Nations officials are being prevented from giving interviews to Greek Cypriot television before Saturday’s crucial referendum on a UN peace plan for ending the division of the island, according to EU officials.

The officials said state and private Greek Cypriot channels were refusing to carry interviews by Günter Verheugen, the enlargement commissioner, who has steered Cyprus over the past five years through difficult negotiations to be ready to join the EU on May 1.

They said the television stations were also preventing Alvaro de Soto, UN special envoy to Cyprus, from giving interviews. His scheduled appearance on CyBC [Cyprus Broadcasting Corporation], the state broadcasting channel, last week was cancelled.

The Cypriot government yesterday denied censorship. “The government categorically states that it had never intervened, nor does it intend to intervene in any way. This would be against the freedom of expression which the government fully respects and upholds,” said a spokesman.

Commission officials, however, insisted Mr. Verheugen was not being allowed to appear on television.

The actions of this so-called “state” convict themselves and need no further judgment from me; if nothing else, they bespeak the profound degradation to which communities are prone when they promote themselves to (ill-considered) statehood. What is most interesting — and chilling — in Ms. Dempsey’s report, however, is the fact that the stations practicing this egregious censorship were not limited to the state broadcaster but included private channels.

Thus do democracies commit suicide, as the Volksseele censors and represses itself. What is most astounding about what has been happening in Cyprus during the last three weeks is that it is all ostensibly part of the process of Cypriot accession to the European Union. One journalist recently authored a column in the Cyprus Mail, an English-language daily, in which he wrote that, “In the highly likely event that the No vote wins…we will become the first police state to become a full member of the EU” (“Triumph of the will,” April 18). While there is much tongue in the cheek of this particular commentator, the question is inescapable: Have the Greek Cypriots even begun to understand how nasty (and frightening) they look to a democratic continent that thought of them all these years as victims but now is getting a particularly ugly — and unrelenting — picture of them as victimizers?

Meanwhile, the Greek media have circled the wagons in their uniquely paranoid fashion to support the “democratic right” of the Greek Cypriots to engage in the most outrageous and openly racist demagoguery regarding the future of their country. While Mr. Papadopoulos has accused the UN of fostering ethnic cleansing through its peace plan, it is apparently Mr. Papadopoulos and his ilk who cannot stomach the thought of another ethnic community besides that of the Greeks daring to call Cyprus home. The racism among the Greek Cypriot rejectionists is as palpable as it is repulsive — and, yet, the Greek press continues to jabber away about the Greek Cypriots’ rights, as if the “right” to impose a prejudicial constitution and second-class citizenship on an ethnic minority is the foundation-stone of a majority’s “self-determination.”

As Europe watches this sad and thoroughly unedifying sight, of course, its collective jaw drops in disbelief verging on disgust. The president of the European parliament, Pat Cox, has referred to the Greek Cypriot “no” campaign as “an unwholesome spectacle”;

Günter Verheugen, the EU commissioner who has been singled out for particular demonization by Greek Cypriots, has charged that “never before in the history of the European Commission has a member of the European Commission been accused of interfering in the internal affairs of a member state.”

And all this Greek Cypriot calumny and disinformation is being perpetrated in the name of democracy and self-determination.

Is it any wonder that Turkish Cypriots have claimed for decades that they could not trust their Greek interlocutors?

Never has the lack of genuinely independent media in Greece and Greek Cyprus been put in starker relief, and never has there been clearer confirmation that private ownership is, in itself, a fraudulent guarantee of independence. Clearly, in Greece and Cyprus, as everywhere else in the world, independence means the ability to engage, contest, and more than occasionally repudiate the majority. Greece and Cyprus are both cultures, however, in which civic patriotism is still considered a strategy of national subversion and liquidation. Cyprus, after all, was led to (its wretched) “sovereignty” by an “ethnarch” who, almost two decades before the Islamic republic of Iran, combined in his person the dual offices of chief of state and ultimate religious (in this case Orthodox Christian) authority.

Under these conditions, it should not surprise that the current president of Cyprus sees no contradiction between, on the one hand, joining a union of nations in which freedom of individual movement is the most fundamental right and, on the other hand, trying to suppress all freedom of movement in his own country for those he considers to be fundamentally “alien.” (Then again, Mr. Papadopoulos’s political perspectives undoubtedly owe more than is decent to those mythologies of Serbian “resistance” that were so puissant in the Orthodox world a decade ago.)

The good news is that Günter Verheugen finally got a chance to speak on the Cypriot public broadcasting network. It wasn’t television, of course, but, rather, the second station of Cypriot public radio. Still, Mr. Verheugen was grateful for tender mercies; as he put it so piquantly to his radio interviewer: “Thank you for giving me the opportunity because not everyone in Cyprus does that nowadays.” The bad news, however, is that most Greek Cypriots still could care less about what Mr. Verheugen has to say. Mr. Verheugen may have spent five years of his life trying to get Cyprus into the European Union, but now that the Greek Cypriots are in, they don’t intend to look back. After all, they’re a full-fledged “state” — and they’ve proved it every day for the last few weeks by pulling the media plug whenever, and on whomever, they want.
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Postby zoppovortoi » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:34 pm

Our society unfortunately is far away from Militades dreams and this is obvious to anyone.

And the 50% of the GC were they do not accept any solution speaks it self’s.
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Postby miltiades » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:39 pm

Kartal_Aetos , its for us to expose propaganda from either side wherever we find it. I want us Cypriots to live peacefully with each other with equal rights under the law and mutual respect for each others religion , national attachments and sensitive issues. In the UK Parliament there are many ethnic MPs , Caribbean , Indian , Scottish Welsh English , Irish etc , and who knows shortly maybe a Cypriot. Is it that the UK is far more advanced than Cyprus when it comes to politics , well of course it is, but we can learn.
The G/C politicians have a lot to learn just as the T/C have. Even the mode of dressing is so out dated.
The most powerful leader in the world is often seen in short sleeve shirts , no suit and no tie , the Cypriot politicians are seen in temperatures exceeding 40 degrees dressed in suits and ties !!!!
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Postby Alexis » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:53 pm

Unfortunately democracy, however flawed is the best thing we've got. Given what's happened in Cyprus there is no way forward now other than to recognise the two communities as politically equal. Hence the need for two separate referendums for Annan Plan.
A lot has been said concerning the Annan Plan, censorship, conspiracy theories and the like. The fact remains that the plan was voted out and going on about it is a futile as mulling over the events of 1963-1974 over and over if the aim is to unify the island. Let's also not forget that this was the first time the people of Cyprus have had the opportunity to vote in a referendum to decide the future of their country and if we are to believe in democracy we need to take the rough with the smooth. I for one would love to see the two communities resolve their differences but we know that with the gulf widening this is going to become more and more difficult to do. The sort of negative language that has been bandied about since the Annan Plan was rejected is of no use to Cyprus, we need to look forward now, not back.
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Postby Mickleham » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:54 pm

My answer to the questions is: NO

Simply there was 30 years of time to find a solution!

Turkey knew the accession for Cyprus was coming up from a long time.

It appears they have there own agenda.

As a nation they now appear not trustworthy to keep the promises they make and to fullfill obligations they undertake in the Interantional arena and especially to the Europeans!
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Postby Kartal_Aetos » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:04 pm

u are very right miltiades...there are actually TC MP's in london representing there boroughs...but no1 wants to do politics in cyprus because lets face it, once in TRNC parliament they are just puppets of turkey...

there are so many protests against the TC's, so many protests against the GC's...why are there none for equality and peace in cyprus???

if any1 is interested i am willing to protest infront of the embassies in london during the next cyprus talks...

unfortunately, its not the right way but how else are we going to stand up and make ourselves heard?

its time someone stood up and started a cypriot nationalist movement where cypriot means cypriot and not GC or TC...where Cyprus ment Cyprus and not RoC or TRNC...where our people rejoiced under the sound of one nation, one flag, one community

i have no hate for Turkey or Greece or there people...they are the motherlands afterall...but its time the children of the children broke free of their parents completely and saw the brotherhood that awaits once more
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Postby miltiades » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:07 pm

I came across the following statement by Greek Cypriots living in the States. I do not subscribe to all its contents but it does reflect on the main reasons the plan was rejected. Again I emphasise that I do not subscribe to all the contents of this statement

The majority of Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan Plan because:

1) It legitimized and continued the illegal Turkish occupation. 2) It permitted fewer than half of the 200,000 refugees who fled the onslaught of the Turkish army in 1974 to return to their homes, and that only after three and one half years from now; The rest would be compensated largely by bonds issued not by the invader, but by the Cypriot government-in effect, the victims would be compensating the victims. 3) Instead of uniting the country, the Annan Plan perpetuated the division, being, in all but name, a partition. 4) The 18% Turkish population of the island received 29% of the land and 50% of the valuable coastline. 5) The Plan permitted all the 100,000 Turkish colonists illegally imported to Cyprus by occupation authorities to remain in homes confiscated from the Greeks. 6) It created an unwieldy and unworkable system of separate legislatures for each community, with a veto formula where the 9% (one half of the 18% Turks) could hold the 91% hostage, hardly an example of a functioning democracy. 7) It provided for a supreme court of 9 judges, 3 Greek Cypriots, 3 Turkish Cypriots and 3 non Cypriots. No sovereign country in the world has such an absurd arrangement. 8) The Annan Plan gave Turkey the right to intervene unilaterally in Cyprus at any time for any reason it chose. 9) It required the dissolution of the Cypriot National Guard, while the Turkish troops remained forever, although in smaller numbers than the present 35,000. However, the Greek population, being unprotected, would be at their mercy. 10) The Plan nullified the LOIZIDOU VS TURKEY case, in which the European Court of Human Rights awarded Tina Loizidou $900,000 for the LOSS OF USE of her property in occupied Kyreneia, not its loss, which the Court did not recognize. Under that precedent, Turkey would owe displaced Cypriots between 2 and 4 billion dollars, all of it lost under the Annan Plan. 11) In addition to the preceding elements, which violate international law in many respects, the Anna Plan violated the Aquis Communautaire, the basic European Union law, which provides for free movement and free settlement within the Union. Tha Annan Plan restricted the right of Greek Cypriots to settle in the Turkish controlled area and requested the Union to make an exception to its rules applicable specifically only to that area. After May 1, 2004, the European Union rules would apply everywhere else in the 25 countries and among 400 million people. The Europeans were less than thrilled with that exception. 12) Finally, and this does not exhaust the list of defects of the Plan, there are no guarantees that Turkey would perform its obligations; everything would depend on the good will of Turkey, a historically undependable criterion.

How did such a monstrous plan, which Kofi Annan with a straight face called «fair and balanced», originate? It surfaced in November 2002 when the U.N. Secretary General presented to the government of the Republic of Cyprus and the occupation authorities a settlement plan bearing his name. Why is it so lopsided in favor of Turkey? Perhaps the explanation lies in a statement made by senior State Department official Daniel Fried to a group a Greek Americans on June 26, 2003. He stated: «When we were trying to persuade Turkey to allow the passage of our troops through its territory into Northern Iraq, we offered Turkey incentives: several billion dollars in loans and grants and Cyprus in the form of the Anna Plan». When Turkey refused passage, the billions were dropped but the Annan Plan remained. It was left up to the Cypriots to drop it on April 24.

On the 37% of the island occupied by the Turkish army, with only 143,000 registered voters, 65% voted in favor and 35% against. Given the tremendous advantages given to Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots, one would have expected a much higher percentage in favor in that area. The Turkish puppet Rauf Denktash, wanting to remain «president of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus», campaigned against it.

What happens now? On May 1, 2004, Cyprus along with nine other countries becomes a full member of the E. U. as an independent country, a portion of whose territory is illegally occupied by a foreign power. The European laws will not apply to the occupied area. Cypriot President Tassos Papadopoulos has pledged that the Cypriot government would take measures to ensure that Turkish Cypriots would get the benefits they would have if they were in the E.U. Under present E. U. Law, the accession of a new country must be approved by all members. Therefore, Cyprus is in a very strong position and could exercise a veto to Turkey’s membership, unless the Turkish troops are withdrawn. THAT IS THE SOLUTION.""

I again state that I do not subscribe to all the contents of the above statement .
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Postby zoppovortoi » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:11 pm

its time someone stood up and started a cypriot nationalist movement where cypriot means cypriot and not GC or TC...where Cyprus ment Cyprus and not RoC or TRNC...where our people rejoiced under the sound of one nation, one flag, one community


I’m 100% agreed on something like that count me in to.

But first let’s realize what paranoia we have to fight:

http://cyprustales.com/?m=200606

Nigerian man wrongly arrested, dragged away from his wedding and beaten by Police

There is more than 100 similar tales in the www.Cyprustales.com just read them.
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Postby Kartal_Aetos » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:31 pm

thats some bullshit...he did nothing wrong

even if he was an illegal immigrant in cyprus, does that constitute the right to beat him and make him sign a form stripping him of his rights?

thats sum bullshit...those racist police officers need a lengthy prison sentence and to be stripped of their role as a RoC police officer....

i had a similar issue last summer when i drove to Larnaca to see some friends...the same police officer stopped me 8 times in three days insistent to find drugs in my car because i was a young turkish cypriot in a new bmw convertible...he caused alot of damage to my car stripping it and breaking the compartment which the cars roof folded in to...the police officer that was with him after the 2nd time they stopped me said to him these kids have nothing...leave them alone now that you've searched his car twice...the racist pig simply said he's a filthy turk...came over to me and asked me if im building on his land...i aint racist, i have alot of greek friends i.e. the ones i was visiting in larnaca, my girlfriend of 3 years etc. etc. but theres only so far u can push me before u push me over the edge...i simply replied "yes, a deluxe villa with olympic swimming pool...and u cant do fuck all about it"

sorry for my reaction but like i said, he asked for it...i dont actually own any property in cyprus...lol...

filthy turk hey...lol...wheres the cypriot part? guess he dont wanna see us living next door :P
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:01 pm

miltiades wrote:Viewpoint I appreciate your sincerity , and of course you can express your views , I was merely correcting or rather objecting to the usage of the apostrophe denoting that there is no such entity as a Cypriot.
My dream is shared by thousands of Cypriots the world over who like me are Cypriots first , just as our ancestors were and Greek or Turkish second. AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED THE ONLY THING THAT EITHER Greece or Turkey have that we don't is numerical superiority . We have nothing to learn from Turkey or Greece.
There are genuine Cypriots who will push their ideology as you call it , I call it realism and common sense because the only common denominator between the two communities is CYPRUS.
I have scores of Turkish Cypriots living in the UK who also consider me their compatriot .
And yes I believe that the occupied part of Cyprus is mine too as well as the free part is yours.
Below is a post by zoppovortoi and also your post agreeing with his comments. Can you please tell me , because I don't understand , what exactly are you agreeing with.

""This is absolutely ridiculous and it shows exactly the point of view of viewpoint, what we are far away from Miltiades dream and we have to act dynamically if we want this madness to stop.""

Your Reply>Thank you zoppovortoi you have kindly highlighted just another example of a GC administered state which is in the EU, frightening...


You have taken it a little out of context i was referring to the handling of the
An Egyptian Muslim with Cypriot nationality have been married with a Muslim women and we do not let her to come to cyprus with her husband because our European “democracy” do not allow Muslim weddings.


This is just another good example of GC mentality when dealing with minorities and what we can expect in a united Cyprus where the numerical majority namely the GCs try to administer democracy and human rights. It was this same mentality we experienced in the 1960 which held TCs back from prospering, so nothing has really changed only the date is now 2006.

You may have reached a level of Cypriotism and ill remove the hyphens as they appear to offend you, (which incidently we face everyday in many of the GC postings) but dont forget you live in another country under their rules and do not have to share anything or have concerns about being dominated or discriminated against by the other community or numerically larger majority. The UK is a melting post of people from around the world and when you meet TCs you feel close to them because you originate from the same island and share many similarities.

Me and many people like me have not lived together with GCs, we are TCs first from an unrecognized country thats what we know and live on daily basis. We have never been made to feel just Cypriots or part of the "RoC" which for us is yours as it is totally GC run and administered.
If this chain or evolution is not broken we will grow even further apart as we have done since the referendum, how do you stop this trend? what needs to be done? just getting rid of and entity which we feel protects us is not the answer. The answer is an overall agreement with safety valves to make sure we do not have any escape clauses that will allow us to persue hidden agendas as in the past. The recognized GC administeration imo is in a stronger position and can take steps to work with and show TCs that they can and want to share this island. That it is in the benefit to unite rather than depend on Turkey forever. This is the only way forward if GCs do not encourage or get the TCs on their side they will never be able to reunite this island.
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