Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nicole22]

Despo, me fears you tell the truth..........but then again, the Berlin Wall was eventually knocked down, there's always hope.

Btw, do you distrust all governments or just this one? In other words, are you affiliated to any one party?

[Issy1956]

Despo,
I cannot disagree with a single word of your analysis. I really would like hear from the detractors of the Annan plan exactly how they envisage a better solution will be arrived at.
Bravo.

[zoppovortoi]

Yes, Miltiades, I absolutely do believe that acceptance of the UN Plan was the only solution that would have led to the unification of Cyprus. Over two years on - and despite the delusions of GCs that the EU would wave a magic wand and everything would be alright - we have absolutely no prospect in sight for any kind of settlement whatsover.

I don’t’ agree with that view.


There is one possibility to establish a federation solution. If the unbelievable propaganda and demonetization of the Anan plan eventually stop or converted to a different propaganda about a new Anan plan with different name.

It’s all about what to tell to the lambs.

Someone said what politic is to choose the bud from the worst and that quote fits exactly on our reality.

Maybe we’ll have another one opportunity to break the wall but if this is not going to happen in the next 10 years there will be nothing to negotiate about in every possible situation.

Division of the island is becoming entrenched, the two communities are even less interested in reapprochment as a result of the bitterness caused by the destruction of the last UN efforts, the ECHR has accepted a TC committee will solve the property issue, the economy of northern Cyprus is developing and becoming even more independent.

This the 100% true and that is we I’m speaking about the time issue.

The UN has repeatedly said it sees no prospect for talks for a long time (clearly indicating the Papadopoulos government as the problem). So, yeah, I do feel that was an opportunity that was deliberately and stupidly destroyed by the delusions that the EU would "give" us something "better."

This is the 100% true. Papadopoulos doesn’t have the support of anyone in Europe but also the Russians have made clear what their interests are similar to Turkish.

Even the Greeks don’t want him and the most important is what none can trust him.

The situation here is more than crazy. The UN said what there is no prospect for talks and our government calls them liars. We’ve been the comedians of the whole world.

As for your "analysis" of the Annan Plan, you are simply wrong and just repeating slogans you have heard without studying or thinking about the issue in any depth. The idea that the Annan Plan gave the Turks what they "wanted" is just ridiculous.

This is the 100% true.

This was only a stupid game of Papadopoulos to convince us what we didn’t get for what we have asked for and the Turks get everything. This absolutely ridiculous and Mr. Markidis (the most appropriate person to analyze the plan) have show as exactly what lies was Papadopoulos saying just to spread fear and emotions among the lambs.

No one can believe what this person (Papadopoulos) want any solution and I’m partly believe what there is a conspiracy in Greece against him.

He is not only taking us to domination. But also we’ve made a lot of problems to the Greeks and the issues that interest them.

Please tell me why Rauf Denktash and the Grey Wolves rejected it because it would supposedly lead to the destruction of the Turkish Cypriots then (interestingly, the same paranoid argument put across by GC rejectionists, just swapping over the word "Turks" for "Greeks").

The plan included repatriation of most Turkish settlers. Even the Papadopoulos government has accepted that some will remain. Some of these people have lived there almost their entire lives.

I agree and there is not one in a million to have a better settlement in this issue.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the UN was going to uproot all of them. More to the point, even if they were all to leave, it would take a long time to move them, build new housing in Turkey for them, integrate them there, etc. Rejection of Annan has just resulted in more settlers coming, and the more time that goes by the more entrenched they become there.

That’s why there is one in a million.

Can you please tell me now, how today, a settlement is going to be achieved that will remove all settlers (some of whom may have been born and lived of the island for over 30 years now)? When and how is this plan that you envisage to remove the settlers by going to happen? How will it be achieved? And, when are Turkish troops going to leave? Guess what - despite all the rubbish said by rejectionists before the referendum, that Turkey would be illegally occupying EU territory and so therefore wouldn't be able to join the EU until it removed all its troops, the EU doesn't agree with that. The EU has not asked Turkey to remove a single soldier before it can enter the EU.

I agree about the rubbish.

This story is all about rubbish.

The stuff you have written about demilitarisation, the time frame of return etc. is just wrong. Please tell me now when are GC (and TC) displaced actually going to return (if they really want to that is)? I can see no one returning now. Please tell me how GC displaced are now going to return?

If we will not found soon a solution no one will return and this is obvious.

[zoppovortoi]

Where is this wonderful settlement that rejection of the Annan Plan was going to bring? When exactly are GC displaced going to start returning?

If we’ll elect him again we’ll get exactly what we ask. Rubbish.

In any case, if the Annan Plan had been accepted, a large number of GC displaced would already have the right to return. Today no one has anything, and there is no prospect of anything on the horizon. And, as time goes by, it becomes more difficult, not only in political terms but in practical terms too.

A settlement plan doesn't have to address the issue of the British Sovereign Base Areas, and it is not in any of the UN resolutions that this issue has to be dealt with. Like it or not, this is considered sovereign British terriory, it is outside of the Cyprus issue. The 50% of that territory that would have been given up to the Greek Cypriot constituent state was a bonus. It is more likely that the bases will be dealt with by a united Cyprus, because the TCs don't like them either. This will involve demilitarisation of the island of Greek, Turkish and Cypriot forces, with Cyprus perhaps eventually joining NATO or the EU force, which doesn't exist yet though.

Please tell me how, now, today as things are this wonderful settlement that you fantasise about, which is going to remove the Sovereign British Bases from Cyprus, is going to be achieved? When will we see this settlement?

This is another big issue what the rubbish minded have to think about very seriously and not just rubbishing with slogans.

As for the stuff about the economy, an independent Irish study found that the Annan Plan would not only have united the Cypriot economy, it would have led to great economic development throughout the whole island. Of course, the rejectionists politicians and media didn't want you to hear about independent studies, they wanted to feed you crap so the GCs would reject the UN plan and then "get" a "better" deal within the EU. How???? What we actually have the EU doing today is trying to get the GCs and TCs to trade directly with each other across the Green Line to unite the economy (and it's the GCs who aren't enthusiastic about this method of uniting the island's economy), and seek to lift the isolation of the TCs and start direct trade with them. And, the other funny thing, is that the GCs are ever so desperate to start direct trade with Turkey! Yes, once Turkey opens its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot ships and planes we're going to send all our produce to them! And Turkey will be offloading its own lovely produce at Limassol port! What a great achievement on the part of the rejectionist Papadopoulos government!

Please tell us, how is this wonderful settlement is going to come about, whereby Cyprus will be united in every single way, the economy as well.

Come on, tell us, where is this new settlement? When are we going to see it? What's it going to contain? Is it going to be better than the Annan Plan? Where is the settlement to the Cyprus problem?!?

You have absolutely right and about the economy issue the situation is much worst now than before for many reasons and the Cyprus problem is in the worst situation ever beacouse of the Papadopoulos actions and not only about the rejecetion of the anan plan.

And I’ve to say a last thing for those are not able to open their eyes and they prefer to live in a stupid virtual reality what there was a 65% of GC that they was ready to say yes to a settlement when the plan was much worst from the 5 and the 75% is plasmatic but unfortunately it have been real because of the stupidest propaganda ever.

[miltiades]

Despo wrote "
""As for your "analysis" of the Annan Plan, you are simply wrong and just repeating slogans you have heard without studying or thinking about the issue in any depth. The idea that the Annan Plan gave the Turks what they "wanted" is just ridiculous. ""

Despo If you take 10 minutes to read just some of my posts you will see that my position has been on the side of a solution leading to a united Cyprus. I consider the Turkish Cypriots my compatriots and have always stated that they just as much as we are co owners of Cyprus. Minorities and majorities have never entered my reasoning , but the role that Turkey has adopted for herself in Cyprus is one that I treat with the utmost disrespect and mistrust. Frankly had the Annan plan been accepted , the future for the whole island would have relied entirely on Turkey showing good will and adhering to the agreement with out any guarantees what so ever . Where do you think the Cypriots would turn to when Turkey in due course decided not to honour certain parts of the agreement, where would we run to . I have stated before that Turkey is a foreign power occupying a part of Cyprus. I do not trust this Turkish government based on Turkeys human rights record , acknowledged by the international community. Let me just say it again , I dd not trust the Turkish government would honour its agreement. A new plan will be made available based on the Annan plan but with amendments and International and European guarantees for both communities, but surely not by Turkey.
You are so convinced that had the majority accepted the Plan , all would be rosy by now with good old reliable Turkey making sure that we behaved according to the tune that she played to us.
Well time will show , that this plan would have led Cyprus to more blood and tears.
We shall find a solution based on the Annan plan that offers a pragmatic chance for a long and just solution for all Cypriots.
Can I also say that this comment of yours " without studying or thinking about the issue in any depth." is insulting since you are suggesting that only Despo and the 22% or so who voted for the plan had thought deeply about the issues involved. With out getting personal you remind me of a newly qualified lawyer I once new.
Respectfully
Miltiades

[Kikapu]

With out getting personal you remind me of a newly qualified lawyer I once new.

This is the second time in the last couple of weeks that you have brought up the "newly qualified lawyer" comment. Are you going to let us in on the intent of your comments, and what is the connection regarding what Despo has posted.??

[zoppovortoi]

Despo wrote "
""As for your "analysis" of the Annan Plan, you are simply wrong and just repeating slogans you have heard without studying or thinking about the issue in any depth. The idea that the Annan Plan gave the Turks what they "wanted" is just ridiculous. ""

Despo If you take 10 minutes to read just some of my posts you will see that my position has been on the side of a solution leading to a united Cyprus. I consider the Turkish Cypriots my compatriots and have always stated that they just as much as we are co owners of Cyprus. Minorities and majorities have never entered my reasoning , but the role that Turkey has adopted for herself in Cyprus is one that I treat with the utmost disrespect and mistrust.

I agree about the disrespect role of Turkey.

Frankly had the Annan plan been accepted , the future for the whole island would have relied entirely on Turkey showing good will and adhering to the agreement with out any guarantees what so ever .

This is far away form the reality and it was only the excuse of Akel as a reaction to Papadopouos winning propaganda.

Europe was guaranteeing the plan and NATO and UN also.

But now there is no guarantee for nothing and we are relied entirely on Turkey showing good will.

Where do you think the Cypriots would turn to when Turkey in due course decided not to honour certain parts of the agreement, where would we run to . I have stated before that Turkey is a foreign power occupying a part of Cyprus.

If Papadopoulos didn’t send Iakovou to the UN Security Council to make the known rubbish with the cooperation of Russia there would not be any problem in any way.

I do not trust this Turkish government based on Turkeys human rights record , acknowledged by the international community. Let me just say it again , I dd not trust the Turkish government would honour its agreement. A new plan will be made available based on the Annan plan but with amendments and International and European guarantees for both communities, but surely not by Turkey.

This is the opinion of Akel and I was agreed with it. It’s just a game to turn around the negative situation among the lambs.

About the guarantees issue of UK Greece and Turkey I’m afraid what there not a possible way to over pass this thing.

But I don’t have anything to afraid because this is just a psychology game.

Let’s not forget what Makarios was ask them to invate and they was legal.

To have a similar situation the whole Europe must collapse.

There in no more guarantees to get about the Plan (if we had accomplished the UN Security council voting). Is just about psychology and I was agreed with Akel back then because the most of as was on panic situation because of the known propaganda rubbish.

You are so convinced that had the majority accepted the Plan , all would be rosy by now with good old reliable Turkey making sure that we behaved according to the tune that she played to us.
Well time will show , that this plan would have led Cyprus to more blood and tears.
We shall find a solution based on the Annan plan that offers a pragmatic chance for a long and just solution for all Cypriots.
Can I also say that this comment of yours " without studying or thinking about the issue in any depth." is insulting since you are suggesting that only Despo and the 22% or so who voted for the plan had thought deeply about the issues involved. With out getting personal you remind me of a newly qualified lawyer I once new.
Respectfully
Miltiades

About the 22% thing is not insulting because of the lies of the propagandist’s like the security thing (another more lie for defense on the lies cataclysm).

And I’m sure what the “traitors” of 22% have a very clear view on the things because they reacting to the insulting propaganda.

And you remind me Akel fan who believe all the rubbish they told him like a lamb. With out getting personal

[miltiades]

I have difficulty understanding your argument , perhaps you ought to brush up on your English a little , and I don't mean that in a nasty way , but YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE .
YOU POST >>>
""And I’m sure what the “traitors” of 22% have a very clear view on the things because they reacting to the insulting propaganda.""
And you remind me Akel fan who believe all the rubbish they told him like a lamb. With out getting personal ""

Regards

[zoppovortoi]

You maybe have right.

I didn’t like your comment about Despo and I’ve answered in a similar way.

I agree with you about the Anan plan and the security issue but I don’t believe what there is actually a problem except from the psychology of that time.

If you can’t understand something else you can always ask me.

[miltiades]

A newly qualified lawyer is in some circles considered to be dismissive of thoughts , ideas and views that do not fit into a preconceived strategy regarding the defence of a client , irrespective of the substance contained in the opposite views. I asked this question once before , as you correctly point out , and in the absence of a negative response I brought it up again.
Can I also say that I firmly believe that unless the overwhelming majority of Cypriots are comfortable with a given solution , such solution will be short lived and doomed to fail , this is precisely why I opposed the Annan plan , having carefully studied the contents in detail and considered seriously the implications and consequences that would ensue following a rejection of the plan by the majority G/Cs. I do not for one minute accept that this "solution " was a solution that would bring permanent peace and stability in Cyprus. My views on the true ownership of Cyprus are well posted and are genuine , without preconceived notions and ideas regarding majorities or minorities .I have tremendous respect for the UK political system and the way is administered coupled with the compilation of political parties from people of all ethnic entities. At the last UK Council elections I voted for 2 councillors of Pakistani origin , but knowing full well that they would represent the interests of the community at large. Similarly I would vote for a Turkish Cypriot , including Mr Talat , if he and others formed a new "Pan Cyprian" party .
I believe Despo , or her parents became refugees , unlike my self , and can understand her reluctance in accepting that the majority of citizens rejected the plan not out of stupidity but by their democratic right to vote as they believe.