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Partition: Will Turkey and TCs ever change their aim?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Alexis » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:33 pm

Piratis,

Makarios cannot escape blame for Grivas's attempt for trying to grab Cyprus for Greece in 1974. Makarios was "aiding and betting" attempts to join Greece from 1960's or so, by building his private army against the will of the constitution. Between 1960 and 1974, I believe majority of the GC's would have been comfortable had it succeded in uniting with Greece. We can not only blame Makarios, because at the end of the day, he was chosen by the people, just like, we can blame the American people for voting in George Bush for the second time, despite his criminal activities against humanity in his first term of office.


Hi Kikapu,

I think you are almost certainly right that even leading upto 1974 the majority of GreekCypriots would have been comfortable with Enosis, so yes the desire for Enosis is certainly a failing of the GC community. But let's also remember that although this was the case this does not mean that those same GCs would have been comfortable with the extermination of the TC population as advocated by Sampson and the like and implied by some members on this forum. Also remember that Grivas was dead by 1974 and that Makarios certainly was against the coupists intentions at this time. It is subject to debate whether Makarios was still pursuing the dream of Enosis at this time or not but the fact that he did not side with the coupists and that a coup was required in the first place is a good indication that at this time his aim was certainly not immediate Enosis with Greece. It is also questionable whether most GCs would have wanted Enosis with Greece at the immediate time given the military dictatorship she was under at the time. Of course had this changed (as it did in 1974) I am sure many GCs would still have favoured Enosis although not necessarily insisted on it.
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Postby Kikapu » Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:37 am

[quote="Alexis,Hi Kikapu, I think you are almost certainly right that even leading upto 1974 the majority of GreekCypriots would have been comfortable with Enosis, so yes the desire for Enosis is certainly a failing of the GC community. But let's also remember that although this was the case this does not mean that those same GCs would have been comfortable with the extermination of the TC population as advocated by Sampson and the like and implied by some members on this forum[/quote]

Alexis,

Anyone who thinks that average Greek person would have like to see their Turkish neighbours exterminated, is an IDIOT. Most Greek Cypriots were happy living side by side. It's only when the nationalist movement sticks its' ugly head, that people get confused and are afraid to be called traitors, if they do not go with the flow. The proof that both communities can live side by side can be seen in the UK. Let me say it one more time, that I have not met a Greek person that I have not liked, even the Greece's military attache to Nato few years ogo, in the USA. Do I believe that Greek and Turkish Cypriot can live side by side again in Cyprus, if you take out the BS politics out of it, and the answer is absolutely. The key is to get rid of all the BS and give everyone an incentive to make their voices count, and not have the majority impose their will against the minority, as it was once done.
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Postby miltiades » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:26 am

Kikapu , I have also never met a Turkish Cypriot , (apart from Ibrahim , known him for 35 years a complete nutter ) who I did not like. This guy Ibrahim , in his mid sixties , thinks he will be the next " President "
Was having a drink in a Turkish owned bar in South London , this guy started throwing insults against the G/Cs until Mehmet the owner and his sons politely told him to shut it or piss off.
In all , I find all Cypriots have so much in common, and if you remove the religious and ethnic aspect there are no other dividers .
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Postby andri_cy » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:05 pm

Yes Kikapu, 99.99% of GC were content to live side by side with their TC neighbours. Thats where we need to get back to.
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Postby Kikapu » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:24 pm

andri_cy wrote:Yes Kikapu, 99.99% of GC were content to live side by side with their TC neighbours. Thats where we need to get back to.


Andri-cy,

I wouldn't say 99.99%, because if my maths is correct, that would be only 1 in 9,999 that would not want to live together. Adding it up, would come to approx. only 60 out of 600,000 GC's that would not be happy to live together. I wish that was the case, and I also know what you wanted to say. What can I say, it's a slow news day !!!

Also, enjoyed reading you families concerns and reactions towards TC's. Why is it always the brother-in-laws that react so hateful towards the other side ?. I forgot to mention, that one of my negative brother-in-laws has been divorced out of the family recently.
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Postby andri_cy » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:04 pm

Kikapu wrote:
andri_cy wrote:Yes Kikapu, 99.99% of GC were content to live side by side with their TC neighbours. Thats where we need to get back to.


Andri-cy,

I wouldn't say 99.99%, because if my maths is correct, that would be only 1 in 9,999 that would not want to live together. Adding it up, would come to approx. only 60 out of 600,000 GC's that would not be happy to live together. I wish that was the case, and I also know what you wanted to say. What can I say, it's a slow news day !!!

Also, enjoyed reading you families concerns and reactions towards TC's. Why is it always the brother-in-laws that react so hateful towards the other side ?. I forgot to mention, that one of my negative brother-in-laws has been divorced out of the family recently.



LOL then you are lucky. I think we are stuck with ours as he has made his wife believe she cannot do any better than him :?
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Postby andri_cy » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:05 pm

Kikapu wrote:
andri_cy wrote:Yes Kikapu, 99.99% of GC were content to live side by side with their TC neighbours. Thats where we need to get back to.


Andri-cy,

I wouldn't say 99.99%, because if my maths is correct, that would be only 1 in 9,999 that would not want to live together. Adding it up, would come to approx. only 60 out of 600,000 GC's that would not be happy to live together. I wish that was the case, and I also know what you wanted to say. What can I say, it's a slow news day !!!

Also, enjoyed reading you families concerns and reactions towards TC's. Why is it always the brother-in-laws that react so hateful towards the other side ?. I forgot to mention, that one of my negative brother-in-laws has been divorced out of the family recently.



Well yea maybe 99.99% was too much LOL
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Postby Kikapu » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:13 pm

[quote="andri_cy
Well yea maybe 99.99% was too much LOL[/quote]

Andri-cy,

You just gave me a little giggle, the way you wrote the above..!!! I would enjoy having you and your husband as my neighbour. Don't forget to bring the 4 year old also. !!
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Postby despo » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:15 pm

In the EU, the Turkish Cypriots, Talat in particular, are seeing as being the side that are taking a positive stance towards reunification of the island, and the efforts to restart negotiations. These statements are often rejected by GC rejectionists as simply being the work of "the British" or "pro-Turks," but below is the statement made by Ursula Plassnik, Foreign Minister of Austria, last year when Talat was elected leader of the TC community - and Austria is hardly a country you can dismiss as being "pro-Turkish." She even takes a dig at Papadopoulos, and wishes he were more like the politicians in the north of the island!

Btw, in the EU they always refer to the north of the island as the "north," never as "occupied." Ursula has been talking publicly of the "north" well before Condoleeza's recent use of the phrase. But, Greek-Cypriot politicians like to hide that truth from the people.


http://www.bmaa.gv.at/view.php3?f_id=8025&LNG=en&version=text

Foreign Minister Plassnik Welcomes Election Victory of Mehmet Ali Talat
18.4.2005

Hope for resumption of dialogue between the two ethnic groups

Vienna, 18 April 2005 - Foreign Minister Ursula Plassnik welcomed the election victory of Mehmet Ali Talat, who succeeded Rauf Denktash as the leader of Turkish Cypriots, as an encouraging development: "This confirms the positive attitude of northern Cypriots towards a solution of the Cyprus issue and towards Europe, something which was already reflected in the outcome of the referendum of 24 April 2004. After all, Mehmet Ali Talat clearly advocated Europe in his former position, too, backing a peaceful solution based on the comprehensive peace plan of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan," said the Foreign Minister.

Plassnik expressed the hope that the dialogue between the two ethnic groups on the island, and thus the UN-sponsored peace process, will now be resumed: "We have high hopes that the positive signals reaching us from the north of the island will be heard by all those in leading positions on the island so that a rapprochement of the two sides will be possible again," Plassnik said.
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