Cyprus-Forum.com

[Issy1956]

Kifeas,
Thank you for your intelligent and articulate post-you make some valid points. Firstly let me state outright that I as a TC support the right of the Kurdish people (as much as the Basques of Spain, the Tamils of Sri Lanka etc etc) to self determination and it is wrong of the Turkish state (along with Iran, Iraq etc to deny them that if that is what they wish). I hereby demand that Turkey should grant the same rights to the Kurdish citizens of Turkey that the TC citizens of Cyprus should enjoy in a united ROC.
Perhaps I am in a minority of the TC's on this but I feel that the interests of Turkey along withs its international reputation would be much better served by them allowing the degree of self determination they would wish for themselves. So I would not deny others the rights that I would want for myself-namely the right to self determination.I may be a lot of things but I am not a hypocrite.
I would have wholeheartedly supported your view with regard to the point you made that "

it is not right for 9% of Cypriots (i.e. 50%+1 of the T/C community) to rule over and decide on behalf of the entire country and its people, and the right of this 9% of Cypriots to bring to a pause, a halt and a stalemate the government of the entire people of the country on practically every matter and issue on the board"

had it not been for the fact that the GC administration is doing exactly this as a member of the EU state with it veto over Turkey accession talks. What percentage of the EU do the GC's represent then? Does it come anywhre near 9%? Veto rights and minority safeguards are Ok for you but not us. Isnt this a little bit hypocritical of you.
In returning to the point you make about the 1960 constitition-it was agreed by all parties by the way rather than "given by the British". You may not have liked it as it was compromise and you didnt get everything you wanted but thats the nature of democracy. Cyprus then as now had a significant minority and we had just as much the right to self determination as you did. The GC's didnt like it all because they were not fighting for independence, one man one vote and democracy- it was Enosis they wanted the right to make us citizens of a greater Greek state. How would you have felt if the positions were reversed and you were going to be voted into the Turkish republic by your majority compatriots. Less than happy I think.So if we had one man one vote in 1960- next thing you know 82% says Enosis 18% say no -next thing you know we are a part of Greece. So your right of self determination becomes our enlavement-a change of colonial masters for the worse in the words of Mr Dentash. Can you see that if self dettermination is good enough for you then its good enough for us well. Thats why the 1960 constition had the safeguards it had in 1960.Did all parties really do their best to try and make it work-probably not on both sides. I dont think so. The attitude then as now is that we are 82%- what we say goes and damn your rights. The GC's only saw independence as a stepping stone to enosis in 1960 and it only later dawned on them the tremendous favour the TC's minority did them in resisting Enosis and having a ROC. However we the TC's are still excluded from it. You might look at it from the point of view that you have indeed achieved Enosis via your EU membership and now it only remains to keep Turkey out and to get back Northern Cyprus and the mission is accomplished.

[Natty]

Hey, i don't really agree that the GC's saw independance as a stepping stone for ennosis, the majority accepted it,but disliked the plan becasue it was flawsed from the start, cypriot people were never aloud to write even there own independance...both communitiesdidn't really make it work, from what i've seen....People need to understand why the GC's wanted ennosis, they didn't want to oppress the TC's they just did not listen to them, take there feelings into account...I completely understand why the TC's didn't want ennosis, when my Dad was telling me about Ennosis, my first thought was, 'well that wasn't very fair to the tc's...the Gc's took the Tc's for granted, but they did not hate them or resent there presence, and do not now.....there are no more cry's for ennosis anymore, and there hasn't been more years and years, in all my years I have never heard of anyone wanting ennosis...The GC's have learned from there mistakes, they now listen to what the TC's want, they don't take them fro granted anymore.....the only cry's I hear are Reunification WITH the TC's!!!

Peace!!

[bg_turk]

GCs can have a "one-man-one-vote" in the TRNC. With the initiation of the property comission, nothing but their own prejudice is stopping them from returning and reclaiming their rights as equal citizens of the Tukrish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

[Piratis]

had it not been for the fact that the GC administration is doing exactly this as a member of the EU state with it veto over Turkey accession talks. What percentage of the EU do the GC's represent then? Does it come anywhre near 9%? Veto rights and minority safeguards are Ok for you but not us.

Here we go with the totally irrelevant example of EU again. EU is NOT a COUNTRY. It is an association of independent countries. It has some rules, if you like their rules and they like you, then you can join. If you don't then you don't join.

In Cyprus there is ONE country, unlike the efforts of some Nazi extremist criminals to divide it by means of ethnic cleansing.

So if you want to use EU as an example, use other EU countries and tell me if there is another EU country were a small minority has a veto power on everything and 50% power share.

Why doesn't Turkey give to the Greek minority their own separate state of 1/3rd of Turkey, and then have 50%-50% power share with them? Why is this thing only asked from Cyprus? Because some criminals with weapons think they can force such undemocratic things on us?

[Piratis]

bg_turk, no Greek Cypriot wants to live under foreign and illegal occupation. They are refugees exactly because of this. They will return when the illegal occupation of our country is over, and this will happen sooner or later in one or another way.

[Viewpoint]

Do the Kurds have partnership agreements like our 1960s agreements???

[Issy1956]

Piratis,
I usually ignore your irrelevant postings but for sake of people who might be reading your ramblings. The Greco-Turkish Cyprus Republic of 1960 was one country the Cyprus of today consists of an internationally recognised Greek Cypriot administration representing the Greeks and the illegal breakaway TRNC (consisting mostly of TC's and illegal Turkish settlers) recognised only by Turkey. Regretably a unified Cyprus does not exist. This is reality.
I used the fact that the EU has taken the dysfunctional remnants of the original 1960 ROC into the EU and given them a veto as an example of the workings of democracy and the safeguards of minority rights be it in a country or an association- the principles are the same-this obviously went way over your head but never mind -read what I said carefully and think about it-you might learn something. I know that the derivation of the word hypocrisy is from the Greeks language but you dont have to practice it to such an extent.
Is the population of Turkey 18% Greek? You can make a case for the Kurds but I am not sure about the Greeks living in Turkey or indeed Turks living in Greece.
Natty,
I think you are mistaken in that the overwhemingly number of the GC in the 50's and 60's (and indeed way before then) lead by the Church wanted Enosis. Support for Enosis died down ssince then and is practically non existent now but I dont hear the same clamour for re-unification from the Greek side.

[Natty]

Hey Izzy I didn't quite understand what you meant? You beleive that GC's did not want ennosis? (sorry, my brain can be a bit fuddled). I hear cry's of reunification from many GC's, they want Cyprus to be one again.....

peace!!

[Natty]

Sorry I have just read your post again, now I understand, sorry....I don't think I said that the majority of the GC's didn't want ennosis, I know that they did, I just want people to understand why, it wasn't to ethnically cleanse the TC's, or oppress them.....the GC's should have listened the TC's instead of just assuming they'd go along with it.....

Peace!

[Issy1956]

VP,
Irrespective of agreements or not right is right and wrong is wrong. We cannot expect others to respect our minority rights if we dont respect other peoples. Besides why keep a hostile rebellious minority within your borders giving you endless grief when you can let them make their own way in the world. Let them totaly I say or form a semi autonous independent region.

Peace to you Natty.