Cyprus-Forum.com

[paaul12]

Piratis Wrote

They waited for the right excuse and the green light from the US.

If this is your opinion, how much of the blame do you apportion to America? If they gave the green light as you allege, why do you not blame them for the situation?

Of course the above reasoning would have to negate the fact that Greek Cypriots had no hand in the lead up to this situation, to believe this you would have to have been living on the moon for the last 40 odd years.

[miltiades]

justwantpeace , you come across as a very well educated young man and I'm proud to have compatriots such as you and Alexis as well as a number of other Cypriots including those with whom we don't see eye to eye all the time but nevertheless I believe that given time we can build that allusive bridge that has been dreamt of for so many tears. Anathema for me would be to see Cyprus and all Cypriots permanently divided and constantly in fear of some political eruption that could cause death and destruction to this island , our Cyprus.
I'm hoping that more and more contributors to this forum will endeavour to refrain from all that has happened in the past and concentrate on what can happen if we reciprocate and show respect to our Cypriot countrymen.
We are an admirable race , we are a unique race , we have so much in common , we love the same food, the same music, we respect the same values and applaud good sense whenever we come across it , we breath the same air and were we to remove the constraints that were placed upon us as children in order to satisfy our elders zeal for religion and patriotism directed at foreign countries , all would be well and Cyprus would be one nation belonging not to the majority or the minority but to Cypriots.
PASHA , are you aware that the name Pasha spelled mostly Pashia , is not uncommon amongst Greek Cypriots , I have the pleasure of knowing a a number of Pashias in Cyprus.

[michalis5354]

, I have the pleasure of knowing a a number of Pashias in Cyprus.

Do you mean the politicians?

[Pasha]

PASHA , are you aware that the name Pasha spelled mostly Pashia , is not uncommon amongst Greek Cypriots , I have the pleasure of knowing a a number of Pashias in Cyprus.

No I wasn't aware of that actually!

There are quite a few "shared" names between TC's and GC's I've noticed. "Kara-" and "Hadj-" are just a couple prefixes I can think of, off the top of my head.

[stuballstu]

Quote:
Do you think the Greek Cypriots made the right decision when they tried to change the constitution in the 60's?

Piratis

As I said above Makarios made proposals for the change of constidution. Since when is making proposals for changing something that is obviously racist and unfair (e.g. 18% of TCs having 30% of governmental jobs), something bad?

Making non negotiable proposals surely was the wrong thing to do. Turkish Cypriots were told to accept it.

Quote:
Why was the constitution accepted then if you didnt think it was just or in your words "forced upon you"?

Because no other option was given. It was either that or continuation of the British rule. It is like if I take you hostage and I ask you if you prefer to cut your arm or your head giving you no other option. Thats what happened.

So in your opinion a non-working or forced upon constitution was better than none then. If British rule went on a little longer with perhaps more negotiations then Cyprus might not have had the problems it has.

Also please dont insult everyones intelligence by saying the constitution was "forced upon Cyprus". I am sure Cypriots were involved in the make up of a constitution. As always blame someone else?????

[miltiades]

In my earlier post I mentioned those nice young men Alexis and Pashas , Michalis of course is another example of a genuine Cypriot.
The surname Pashias means a great deal to me , in fact the most precious little girl of my life , my grand daughter that I adore and would do any thing for is called Christina Pashias ! !

[andri_cy]

Viewpoint , what makes you think that I'm in the minority , quite the opposite , don't just look at this forum , believe me the overwhelming majority want a united Cyprus with all its citizens equal under the laws of the land.

I'm really curious to know whether Miltiades is accurate with the above statement. I can only speak for my family and anyone else who would like to add their feelings towards this statement, would be most interested by me to read, that my family is not alone in this.

I come from a large family. With the extended family members, it gets even larger. Two of my brother-in-laws, one from Cyprus and the other from Turkey are the only two, who do not want anything to do with Greeks from Cyprus or Greece. Do not want their culture, their music, their people. If all the Greeks disappeared tomorrow, they would be complaining that it's not happening fast enough, because of their absolute hate for the Greeks. Both live in the UK, and they don't have much love for the British either, and in one's case, also the Americans. I think you get the picture.

The complaint from the rest of the family regarding the Greeks in Cyprus or Greece, comes down to " we just don't trust them". To my Greek friends, I say, forget my two brother-in-laws and concentrate on the rest of the family to win their trust. The rest of the family represents 90% who would want to unite with the Greeks, if they can feel safe and secure. That they have equal say how Cyprus functions for all, as a "United Country".

I'm almost certain, that you're going to find your own "two brother-in-laws" in your Greek family, and we need to ignore them also and focus on the rest of your family which would be the majority, who would want us to win their trust from the Turks. (I hope I got the trust thing in the right order, if not here it is in plain ENGLISH....we need to trust each other)

In conclusion, Miltiades is spot on, with my family anyway, that he is not in the minority, but the majority to solve the Cyprus problem. We need to build the trust between us.

What does your family say. ???

MY family has always had TC friends. I remember my mom and my grandma talking about my grandpa's best friend that was TC. My mom always talks about how she wonders what they are doing and wishes it was all back the way it was. We do have one person in my family that calls turks and turkish Cypriots dogs and all kinds of names. He is my mom's brother in law and he is not even Cypriot-he is from Crete. A few years back before my father died, he was banned from our house for such talks(along witht alking crap about every other race other than Greeks of course and telling me and my brother that we stole places in the Greek universities from his chilren he had with his previous wife) and he has never been invited back. We all have some bad feelings for what happened in 1974 and all the people who died, got raped, lost their homes. That is something that a lot of people arent forgetting. But the people who lived through it like my parents and my grandparents find it so easy to just want everything back the way it was and miss it. I think that the 2nd generation is the one that is bitter. I think the 3rd generation is looking back to peace and love between us again. At least I hope so.

[Piratis]

If this is your opinion, how much of the blame do you apportion to America? If they gave the green light as you allege, why do you not blame them for the situation?

The US of course has a significant part of the blame. They, thought CIA, were the ones who were behind the Greek Junta. They decided that Greece was getting too close to communism so they planed the coup in Greece. If you look in world history you will find many countries were the CIA has done the same. (something that continues until today. Just yesterday I was reading how the Americans were supporting the warlords of Somalia)

Then of course it was the time of the "red monk" and of "Cuba of Mediterranean" to pay the prize of not fully aligning themselves with the American interests.

In the case of Cyprus the American interests matched the plans of Turkey for Cyprus. That was all that was needed.

Of course the above reasoning would have to negate the fact that Greek Cypriots had no hand in the lead up to this situation, to believe this you would have to have been living on the moon for the last 40 odd years.

Are you talking about the tiny minority of GCs that supported the CIA backed Junta of Athens? Because beyond that GCs had nothing to do with what happened in 1974.
Surely GCs have more blame for what happened between 63-68, but the excuse for the invasion in 1974 was the Athens backed coup, and not the intercommunal conflict that by that time was mostly over.

[Piratis]

Making non negotiable proposals surely was the wrong thing to do. Turkish Cypriots were told to accept it.

The fact that no change was made to the constidution based on those proposals proves that what you say is wrong.

So in your opinion a non-working or forced upon constitution was better than none then. If British rule went on a little longer with perhaps more negotiations then Cyprus might not have had the problems it has.

It was the least bad.

Also please dont insult everyones intelligence by saying the constitution was "forced upon Cyprus". I am sure Cypriots were involved in the make up of a constitution. As always blame someone else?????

You are insulting everyones intelligence when you are telling me that racist parameters such as a 30% governmental positions for the 18% of TCs was something decided by Greek Cypriots.
The fact is that Cypriots were not left alone to decide about their own constidution.
Even if we assume that GCs had some minor say in it, would a citizen of any other country agree that the constidution of his own country will be written by foreigners with only minor influence by the citizens of the country itself?

[stuballstu]

Quote:
Also please dont insult everyones intelligence by saying the constitution was "forced upon Cyprus". I am sure Cypriots were involved in the make up of a constitution. As always blame someone else?????


You are insulting everyones intelligence when you are telling me that racist parameters such as a 30% governmental positions for the 18% of TCs was something decided by Greek Cypriots.
The fact is that Cypriots were not left alone to decide about their own constidution.
Even if we assume that GCs had some minor say in it, would a citizen of any other country agree that the constidution of his own country will be written by foreigners with only minor influence by the citizens of the country itself?

Piratis

You continually claim that the constitution was "forced upon" Cyprus. Are you trying to say that the constitution was just pulled out of mid air by the Brits?

Even if we assume that GCs had some minor say in it

This above quote by you shows that you dont know how much influence GC's had. I think that you will find that GC's, TC's Greece, Turkey and the UK all had a helping hand in writing the constitution. The fact of the matter is that the GC's should not have accepted something that they did not like.

The fact is that Cypriots were not left alone to decide about their own constidution.

You made a good job when independence was granted.

Piratis i believe that you are well educated and welll versed in Cyprus history however you are part of the blame culture on Cyprus. Its the British faults, the Americans, the Turks, the Turkish Cypriots. At what point do you take responsibilty for your own actions?