Cyprus-Forum.com

[andri_cy]

Viewpoint lets say a GC who had a property in the north finds out that a school was built on his property. In your "dream" solution plan (and I dont mean that in a sarcastic way) would that person get compensated for their land?

[Viewpoint]

Definately, without question. But that does not give him the right to go home as Piratis keeps demanding, that option unfortunately is not available, thats what ım trying to explain.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas, back to my original question though. Do you believe there is a contradiction between bizonality and all the refugees rights to return?

No, I do not believe there is a contradiction, if we take into consideration that it is the mere right of choice to return that is demanded, without that implying that they will also have to be “forced” or “obliged” to return, plus:

1. The right of all refugees to return is also viewed through the fact that not all refugees want or will want or choose to return. This is an undeniable fact, because of the elapsing of all these years during which many have passed away, and many (almost all) have settled their lives in a permanent way elsewhere in the south and /or abroad.

2. That almost 50% of the G/C refugees would have theoretically returned within the boundaries of the South (G/C) State.

3. That the right to participate in the North (T/C) State's political life will require permanent residency and not mere ownership of a house or an apartment in which someone will vacation for a few weeks or a couble of months in a year.

4. The territorial arrangements will be re-visited so that the territorial natural resources are more evenly distributed among the population of the country and the targeted population of the two states, so that there is no need or incentive for more G/Cs to want to settle in the North State.

With this I bring to your attention that even though the T/C state would cover 29% of the territory -something which alone theoretically justifies up to 35% of it's permanent residents to be of G/C origin, the coast line of this state was more than 47% of the total Cypriot coastline, and this in country in which the coastline plays a very crucial role for the overall economic development.

In continuation of the above message (point:4) It is possible to re-arrange the territories of the two States so that 1. The territory of the North (T/C) State drops down to 25% by having two major areas (one of each State) enclosed from the side of the land within the mass of the other state, thus allowing the Karpas villages (some 25,000 G/Cs) to return under the control of the South (G/C) State, and also reducing the coat line ration of the North State down to around 35%. This will in effect mean that as many about 125 out of the 180 thousands of 1974 G/C refugees will be able to return under the G/C State, living only about 55,000 to be from areas which will be control by the T/C State. Now even if all of them return one day back into their origin areas (something which I see difficult to ever materialise,) they will only constitute around 25% of the North (T/C) State’s population. This 25% of G/Cs is approximately equal to the extra territory that the North (T/C) State gains over the T/C population percentage, and therefore it also justifies the 25% territory for the T/C State.

Bellow there is a map with the new territorial arrangements.

The Karpas peninsula end and the Kormakitis peninsula are shown as part of the G/C State, thus the coastline of the T/C state is reduced down to the 35% of the total Cypriot coastline. Another 7-8% of the coastline is part of the British bases, and the remaining 57% of the coastline is part of the G/C state.



PS: Lourudjina and Pergamos are two areas enclosed within the G/C state but administrated by the T/C State, and Asshia and Pyga /Prastion are two corresponding areas enclosed within the T/C State but administrated by the G/C state, like the larger Lefka area and its corresponding Karpas area.

[Sotos]

Where did you get that map from Kifeas? Was it part of one of the previews plans from Annan?

[andri_cy]

Definately, without question. But that does not give him the right to go home as Piratis keeps demanding, that option unfortunately is not available, thats what ım trying to explain.

Yes it is understandable. Like in the same way the guy that owned the land that the Lrnaka airport is on isnt getting his land back and will have to settle for money.

[Kifeas]

Where did you get that map from Kifeas? Was it part of one of the previews plans from Annan?

It is the annan plan map modified.

I made a better and more accurate one, but I couldn't edit the previous post. It says that I cannot edit my posts after 45 minutes have passed, therefore I am having the forum server overloaded with extra KBytes instead.

The Karpas peninsula end and the Kormakitis peninsula are shown as part of the G/C State, thus the coastline of the T/C state is reduced down to the 35% of the total Cypriot coastline. Another 7-8% of the coastline is part of the British bases, and the remaining 57% of the coastline is part of the G/C state.

The above information is wrong.

The Annan plan territorial arrangements gave the T/C State 47% of the coastlines, and only 44.3% to the G/C State. The remaining 8.7% of the coastlines was part of the British bases.

The above arrangement gives about 25% of the total territory to the T/C state, but only 30% of the coastlines. The British bases still have the 8.7% and the remaining 61.3% of the coastlines is now part of the G/C State.

[sadik]

Kifeas, what were your consideration adjusting the map for Karpas? Are you taking into account the current massive development in Karpas area ?(which actually is within the boundaries of your map) There is also another massive development thats being planned for the Morphou region, but I'm not sure if it's within the Lefka enclave area.

Where did you get that map from Kifeas? Was it part of one of the previews plans from Annan?

It is the annan plan map modified.

I made a better and more accurate one, but I couldn't edit the previous post. It says that I cannot edit my posts after 45 minutes have passed, therefore I am having the forum server overloaded with extra KBytes instead.

The Karpas peninsula end and the Kormakitis peninsula are shown as part of the G/C State, thus the coastline of the T/C state is reduced down to the 35% of the total Cypriot coastline. Another 7-8% of the coastline is part of the British bases, and the remaining 57% of the coastline is part of the G/C state.

The above information is wrong.

The Annan plan territorial arrangements gave the T/C State 47% of the coastlines, and only 44.3% to the G/C State. The remaining 8.7% of the coastlines was part of the British bases.

The above arrangement gives about 25% of the total territory to the T/C state, but only 30% of the coastlines. The British bases still have the 8.7% and the remaining 61.3% of the coastlines is now part of the G/C State.

[Kifeas]

The above arrangement gives about 25% of the total territory to the T/C state, but only 30% of the coastlines. The British bases still have the 8.7% and the remaining 61.3% of the coastlines is now part of the G/C State.

However, the above territorial arrangement allows for up to 70% of G/C refugees to return under G/C state administration, without further affecting T/C population current residence in those areas. The remaining 30% (about 50-55 thousands) may return under T/C state administration without threatening the balance or the majority status of the T/C community in the T/C state, as they will only constitute roughly the 24-25% of the total State’s population at best (maximum.) The 25% of G/Cs holding political rights within the T/C state is justified by the 25% of the territory that the state will have. If you subtract 19% (T/C population) out of the 25%, and get the extra territory over and above the T/C population, and then you divide the difference with the 25% you will get .24 or 24%. This result is equal to the G/C population presence inside the T/C state as a percentage of the total.

i.e.
Territory
25% - 19% = 6. (Extra territory)
6 divide by 25 = 0.24 or 24%

Populations.
170,000 (T/Cs including naturalized settlers) plus 55,000 (maximum returning G/Cs) = 225,000 (total T/C state’s population)

55,000 (returning G/Cs) divided by 225,000 (Total T/C state’s population) = 24.4%

Nevertheless, we will be lucky if only half of these 55,000 of G/Cs will ever be convinced to return under T/C administration.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas, what were your consideration adjusting the map for Karpas? Are you taking into account the current massive development in Karpas area ?(which actually is within the boundaries of your map) There is also another massive development thats being planned for the Morphou region, but I'm not sure if it's within the Lefka enclave area.

Near which villages is the massive develoment taking place? Is it the one near Vokolida village at the south side of the begining of Karpas? (right after Bogazi village?)

[Kifeas]

Kifeas, what were your consideration adjusting the map for Karpas? Are you taking into account the current massive development in Karpas area ?(which actually is within the boundaries of your map) There is also another massive development thats being planned for the Morphou region, but I'm not sure if it's within the Lefka enclave area.

Near which villages is the massive develoment taking place? Is it the one near Vokolida village at the south side of the begining of Karpas? (right after Bogazi village?)

I am considering that those villages in this area were anyway going to have a free return of G/Cs with some extra rights, since those villages were not inhabited by many T/Cs but mostly settlers.

If you remember, also the very first map of Anan plan 1 had these area to be returned under G/C state administration