Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

I don't see how the GC's will be under-represented by having the 4 for 1 vote as I proposed. Let say candidate X the GC's wants gets 80'000 votes and the candidate Y the TC's wants gets 20,000 votes. This will make each candidate even. Don't forget, in a united Cyprus, the politicians will be working for all the people, so if the Greek Cypriot candidate can offer more for the people than the Turkish Cypriot candidate, then you will also have TC's voting for candidate X who is GC, and guess what, each vote he receives from a TC will be worth 4 votes, where as a GC voting for candidate Y, a TC candidate will receive only 1 vote. It just gives everyone equal standing to make their vote count. I really do not see a down side to this proposition.

And whats the point of calling this democracy? Lets give to just one person 500.000 votes and then lets have elections to "democratically" elect a dictator
You can't give to one person more votes than to another simply because one belongs to a different race or ethnic background. That is a clear racist discrimination.

The quotas that I propose is not a perfect system but it will guarantee that no community will be under represented.

[miltiades]

It will take brave politicians on both sides to form a Political party made up of T/Cs and GCs , then they must be prepared to spend years in the wilderness , to promote their ideals and the need to unite Cyprus as one nation.
Voters , all having one vote , will cast their vote for the party , not the G/C or T/C party but the Cypriot party.
There are thousands upon thousands of Cypriots like my self who are committed to one Cyprus under a Cypriot government that will include all Cypriots , even Russians , English and may Sri Lankans.
I know that I'm obviously influenced by the UK political scene , but what is wrong with this system that has worked well for the UK for generations now. You join a party and voters vote on the whole for the party.
In the recent UK Council elections I voted for the labour councillors both Muslims. I was voting for the party that happened to have as its councilors two Pakistanis. I wasn't voting for Pakistan .

[Kikapu]

How do you expect the TC's with their 20% of the island to have any political influence of electing anyone in a United Cyprus, without leveling the playing field by having the 4 for 1 vote I mentioned earlier.

Each TC will have the same influence as each GC without racist discriminations, just about every other democratic country in the whole world.

I can perfectly understand if you ask for guaranteed quotas and affirmative actions to make sure that TCs are not under-represented in anything. Thats perfectly acceptable. But if you ask for 4 votes for each TC then it means GCs will be under-represented and discriminated against which can not be accepted.

Guaranteed quatas and affirmative actions are only good for having people in the work places and does nothing to who gets elected into political offices. By the way , I do not support affirmative actions, since you do not get the best qualified person for the job. You put whoever into a job, because the law tells you so. That really is discriminatory against any qualified person.

I don't see how the GC's will be under-represented by having the 4 for 1 vote as I proposed. Let say candidate X the GC's wants gets 80'000 votes and the candidate Y the TC's wants gets 20,000 votes. This will make each candidate even. Don't forget, in a united Cyprus, the politicians will be working for all the people, so if the Greek Cypriot candidate can offer more for the people than the Turkish Cypriot candidate, then you will also have TC's voting for candidate X who is GC, and guess what, each vote he receives from a TC will be worth 4 votes, where as a GC voting for candidate Y, a TC candidate will receive only 1 vote. It just gives everyone equal standing to make their vote count. I really do not see a down side to this proposition.

It shouldnt matter the origin of the person. If he is worthy of being voted he should get voted no matter what. For example if a corrupted GC and a very good TC were running for the same office, I would vote for the best one no matter if he was TC. After all they are both Cypriot, working for the Cypriot people so it shouldnt matter if they are TC or GC.

Andri-cy,

Under normal conditions and trust worthy citizens "one man one vote" will be the way to go. In the USA, as you know, with the country evenly split politically, approx. 50% Democrats and approx 50% Repuplicans, and even at this close percentages, the Republicans control the Senate, the House and the White House, and you have seen how this Bush government changed America to fit with the idealogy of the Right Wing. From helping the rich get richer to destroying the environment to help big business. We have gone to wars when not needed to do so, to spying on it's own citizens. Breaking international aggreement on Geneva conventions on Human Rights and torture. Bush has gotten America further into debt by spending peoples money on wars that will help his defence contractor friends. We have the most secretive government now than ever, even worse than Nixon. The bottom line is, Absolute Power corrupts.

80% Greek Cypriot versus 20% Turkish Cypriot. How do you escape from the GC's having Absolute Power, and do you think the TC's want to support this and just have faith in those who hold power. We have a saying in the States, "Been there done that", or " F*** me once shame on you, F*** me twice shame on me". I don't belive the TC's will ever again place their future in someone elses hands. They would rather stay divided. Give the TC's an incentive to be a political equal and let the best man or woman win at the polls, to make Cyprus one country again, people living where ever they want. Politics was the reason that the country tore apart, so lets not have politics to be the reason on preventing it to be reunited.

[Piratis]

I don't belive the TC's will ever again place their future in someone elses hands. They would rather stay divided.

TCs are part of Cyprus and Cyprus comes with a GC majority by default. It is not your option to keep part of our land under occupation.

If they do not want to place their future in the Cypriot leadership (which will come out of the combined votes of all Cypriots in a democratic way without racist discriminations) then Turkey should give them part of Turkey to build there their own country. Our land is not offered to you for this purpose.

Should the blacks in the US also demand 1/3rd of the US for their own separate country? Do you know ANY other minority that has ethnically cleansed the majority from an area to create their own separate state because they "could not trust the majority"?? Do you know ANY other minority that is given 50% power?
Whats so special with Turkish Cypriots? The custom of Turkey for land grabs and genocides that should scare us into accepting such outrageous demands that exist nowhere else in the whole world?

[Viewpoint]

Under normal conditions and trust worthy citizens "one man one vote" will be the way to go. In the USA, as you know, with the country evenly split politically, approx. 50% Democrats and approx 50% Repuplicans, and even at this close percentages, the Republicans control the Senate, the House and the White House, and you have seen how this Bush government changed America to fit with the idealogy of the Right Wing. From helping the rich get richer to destroying the environment to help big business. We have gone to wars when not needed to do so, to spying on it's own citizens. Breaking international aggreement on Geneva conventions on Human Rights and torture. Bush has gotten America further into debt by spending peoples money on wars that will help his defence contractor friends. We have the most secretive government now than ever, even worse than Nixon. The bottom line is, Absolute Power corrupts.

80% Greek Cypriot versus 20% Turkish Cypriot. How do you escape from the GC's having Absolute Power, and do you think the TC's want to support this and just have faith in those who hold power. We have a saying in the States, "Been there done that", or " F*** me once shame on you, F*** me twice shame on me". I don't belive the TC's will ever again place their future in someone elses hands. They would rather stay divided. Give the TC's an incentive to be a political equal and let the best man or woman win at the polls, to make Cyprus one country again, people living where ever they want. Politics was the reason that the country tore apart, so lets not have politics to be the reason on preventing it to be reunited.

Great post..some very valid points.

[Viewpoint]

I don't belive the TC's will ever again place their future in someone elses hands. They would rather stay divided.

TCs are part of Cyprus and Cyprus comes with a GC majority by default. It is not your option to keep part of our land under occupation.

If they do not want to place their future in the Cypriot leadership (which will come out of the combined votes of all Cypriots in a democratic way without racist discriminations) then Turkey should give them part of Turkey to build there their own country. Our land is not offered to you for this purpose.

Should the blacks in the US also demand 1/3rd of the US for their own separate country? Do you know ANY other minority that has ethnically cleansed the majority from an area to create their own separate state because they "could not trust the majority"?? Do you know ANY other minority that is given 50% power?
Whats so special with Turkish Cypriots? The custom of Turkey for land grabs and genocides that should scare us into accepting such outrageous demands that exist nowhere else in the whole world?

Pity you didnt realize we were part of Cyprus back in the 1950s/1960s, we as Turkish Cypriots also have rights and claims on Cyprus we have never wanted to annex the island to Turkey, we have not claimed its all ours and we always acknowledge your rights to live here as well, but unfortunately this is not the same for you. We have been discriminated against, persecuted and even today we are isolated just like the 1960s. We are not going anywhere we are here for good and the sooner you stop sending us to Turkey the better.
The opportunity to unite is just as much in front of you as it is me, why dont you take steps to win the trust of the TC community rather than push us further and further away with your its all your fault rhetoric, you will in time repeat history and push us closer towards agreed division or at worst the current status quo.

[Piratis]

Pity you didnt realize we were part of Cyprus back in the 1950s/1960s, we as Turkish Cypriots also have rights and claims on Cyprus we have never wanted to annex the island to Turkey, we have not claimed its all ours and we always acknowledge your rights to live here as well, but unfortunately this is not the same for you.

On the contrary I have never asked that any Turkish Cypriot should move from his home and I have always supported that TCs should have a proportional representation just like every other minority in the whole world.
On the other hand you support the ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots and the stealing of their land.

We have been discriminated against, persecuted and even today we are isolated just like the 1960s. We are not going anywhere we are here for good and the sooner you stop sending us to Turkey the better.

We have been discriminated against not for 10, but for 300 years by you, and until today you insist on middle age practices of land grabbing and ethnic cleansing. While we do not demand even a single violation to your human and democratic rights, and we ask from you to be equal Cypriot and European citizens, you outright reject this, demanding gains against GCs because you "won the war".

The opportunity to unite is just as much in front of you as it is me, why dont you take steps to win the trust of the TC community rather than push us further and further away with your its all your fault rhetoric, you will in time repeat history and push us closer towards agreed division or at worst the current status quo.

And what steps should we make? In another thread I talked about the free health care that RoC provides to Turkish Cypriots and your response was: "The political gain far outwieghs the financial cost, please feel free to cancel these "benefits" if they make you feel uncomfortable, I dare you."

Am I guessing right when I say that the "steps" you want are the ones that would help the pseudo state of "trnc" gain recognition, and not steps that will help TCs directly (like the free health care)?

[Viewpoint]

The steps I would take if I were the GC side would be to get the UN SG to restart talks on the issues which make the GC community uncomfortable and how compromise can be found. I would show the world that I as the recognized part of Cyprus take the lead to resolve my problems, I would meet with Talat on a weekly basis to exchange ideas on how to move forward, call his bluff show the world that you really do want a solution. At the moment its all a lot of hot air preparation of preparation for talks is just a load of jargon that means we will put obsticles in the way of any future talks and will use EU leverage to get what we want.