Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

he accident above the waters of the Aegean Sea provided no justification to either Turkey’s six mile or Greece’s 10 mile claims. Both offices of their chiefs of general staff need to take immediate precautions to prevent a repeat of such tragedies.

Mehmet Ali Birand

I am writing this piece for Turkish and Greek politicians and Turkish and Greek chiefs of general staff.

I have a simple question.

Was it all worth 37-year-old pilot Kostas İliakis losing his life? A family is in mourning.

What did you gain? What did you prove?

We have all been expecting such a thing to happen for some time.

Eventually, it did.

A young man lost his life, and each country lost a plane worth millions of dollars.

Please don't tell me �The country is important. Our lives for the country.� This matter has nothing to do with the country.

Dear Turkish and Greek politicians and commanders, if you had wanted to, if you had paid a little attention, you could have prevented this tragedy.

What did you prove with this incident?

Did the Greek Office of the Chief of General Staff prove that Greek airspace extends 10 miles?

No.

You know perfectly well that when the territorial waters extend only six miles, you can convince no one that the airspace extends 10 miles. No one will agree with you, especially Turkey.

So what did Turkey gain?

Did it prove that Greek territorial waters extend only six miles?

No.

Both Ankara and Athens have been playing this game over the Aegean for many years. They are risking the lives of our young pilots. They are endangering millions of dollars in investment. These games allow Greece to tell its public: �We gave the hostile Turks a lesson they will not forget. We protected our airspace.� We, on the other hand, get to tell our public, �We prevented Greek encroachment.�

If they wanted to, they could play the same game without risking anyone's life.

The Turkish Air Force may violate the six to 10-mile airspace once a month, or even a few times a year, and still defend its claims.

At the end of the day, what's important is to show that the claim exists. When you fly over the same airspace hundreds of times, your argument doesn't become more right. Flying once or twice or 500 times doesn't make any difference.

The same is true for the Greek Air Force. Instead of dogfights, it could just follow the Turkish plane a few times and still continue to support its claims.

Turkish and Greek diplomats and soldiers should learn a lesson from the death of İliakis and implement certain measures. In the memory of this young man, the six to 10-mile argument either should be ended, or at least the number of flights needs to be decreased to a few times a year.

This incident should teach all of us a lesson.

If we don't act immediately, such accidents will continue to happen. I wonder what those responsible will say then.

There is a time and a place to be a hero, but no one can be this wasteful with lives.

The Turkish and the Greek media should stop competing in nationalist slogans and start pressuring their governments and militaries. They should move to end this nonsensical game.

The Turkish chiefs of general staff should do what their diplomats and governments failed to do and end this Russian roulette. If not, they should at least take measures to minimize the danger.

Please gentlemen, the time to act is now.

Let's not murder our youngsters.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... wsid=44378

[Alexis]

Completely agree with that article cypezokyli, it was refreshing to read.

Thanks

[bg_turk]

The collision happened in undisputed INTERNATIONAL airspace. The area where the crash happened was not disputed for it was further thn 12 miles from any Greek island.

[Kifeas]

The collision happened in undisputed INTERNATIONAL airspace. The area where the crash happened was not disputed for it was further thn 12 miles from any Greek island.

Ok!

What do you comment then on?

1. The fact that it was within the Greek F.I.R., in which the Turkish planes entered without submitting flight information plans.

2. The fact that one of the 3 planes was an RF-4 spy plane, equipped with aero-photographic equipment of the latest technology.

3. The fact that the route the 3 planes followed from their takeoff base in Turkey was directed towards the island of Crete, in which the S-300 AA missile system is based.

4. The fact that the place of the interception and the collision was only 2 minutes away before entering the Greek airspace around Crete and only 4 minutes before been over the S-300 missile bases in the east end of Crete island.

5. The fact that this very same act is repeated at least once every month, with the same set of planes attempting to fly the same route towards Crete, without submitting flying information plans, and always becoming intercepted and turned back at some stage of their operation, and some times after the manage to find themselves over Crete.

6. The fact that due to the nature of the Aegean sea, in which because of the so many Greek islands with each one having its own Greek airspace, it takes only one minute to enter/exist Greek/international airspace, and this will occur multiple times, and because of this there is no other option for the Greek air force other than to take off and fly towards any plane entering Greek FIR without submitting flying plans.

You see, the issue is not so simple, and clearly the Turkish side is playing very dangerous and arrogant games with Greece. The fact that in this particular case the accident occurred in international airspace, nevertheless within Greek FIR, means absolutely nothing, and it is rather circomsatntial.

[bg_turk]

FIR Athens has as a purpose to control and direct the air traffic for civilian air-crafts, and in no way does it give Greece final say over millitary flights in the area and inno way does it give Greece the right to police INTERNATIONAL airspace or imply any kind of soveregnity over the area.

If Greece feels vulnerable in the Aegean, so does Turkey since its airspace is readily accessible from many of the Greek islands. Greeces failure to respect previous demilitarization agreements in the Aegean, make the Turkish position even more precarious. Turkey has every right to defend its national interests against Greek expansionism in the Aegean by carrying millitary activities in the INTERNATIONAL airspace which in no way violates Greek soveregnity,as defined by existing bilateral agreements.Greece better stop harrassing Turkish airplanes in the region and learn to share the Aegean with its neighbour on the other side of it.

[Kifeas]

FIR Athens has as a purpose to control and direct the air traffic for civilian air-crafts, and in no way does it give Greece final say over millitary flights in the area and inno way does it give Greece the right to police INTERNATIONAL airspace or imply any kind of soveregnity over the area.

If Greece feels vulnerable in the Aegean, so does Turkey since its airspace is readily accessible from many of the Greek islands. Greeces failure to respect previous demilitarization agreements in the Aegean, make the Turkish position even more precarious. Turkey has every right to defend its national interests against Greek expansionism in the Aegean by carrying millitary activities in the INTERNATIONAL airspace which in no way violates Greek soveregnity,as defined by existing bilateral agreements.Greece better stop harrassing Turkish airplanes in the region and learn to share the Aegean with its neighbour on the other side of it.

Do you know how many miles off the US coasts does the US F.I.R. extents? 200 miles! Clearly overlapping international airspace, which starts 12 miles off the coasts! Do you know what will happen to any military aircraft entering the US F.I.R. without submitting flying plans? Shot down on the spot!

As for the militarization of the Aegean islands, I will explain to you why they are militarised when you will explain to me what 150,000 Turkish troops of the 3rd Army Command of Turkey which are placed along the Aegean coast of Turkey - fully equipped with sea landing capabilities, do? Note that this 3rd or “Aegean” Army command was re-ordered right along the coast off the Greek islands, before the armament of the Greek islands begun. The Armament of the islands was a consequence (a reaction) of the above movement by the Turkish army. Is Turkey afraid that Greece will invade one day and occupy Turkey, and therefore it needs such an army stationed there in order to defend its coasts? Which country of the two is speaking about “casus bellies” all the time? Who is more vulnerable between the two countries in case of a war, Turkey which faces an invasion and a landing threat from Greece? Or Greece with the so many islands off the coast of Turkey?

[bg_turk]

We will never agree on this, Kifeas, it is a waste of time to argue who is right and who is wrong. Obviously both countries are defending their national interests.

[paaul12]

The Greeks are learning what the internation law is at the end.

English


Athens calls F-16 dog-fight "accident" not "harassment" for first time



In reports provided to the Turkish Foreign Ministry and the military forces following the mid-air dog-fight which ended in a crash involving two F-16 fighter planes, one from Turkey and the other from Greece, some striking developments were noted by investigators.

Foremost among these was that the Greek forces, for the first time ever, have referred to the dog-fight, many of which have occured before over the Aegean, in their own reports not as "harassment" but as an "accident." This is a significant detail, in that it means Athens is not claiming, as it has in the past, that Turkish air force had infringed on Greek air space. The "accident" reference makes it clear that it was international air space.

Diplomatic sources note that, while Turkey has been regularly updating NATO on its flights through Aegean and eastern Aegean international air space, Greece has not been doing the same. Said one authority, "What this means is that Greek forces are aware of our flights in that area. So they should not interpret a Turkish fighter in the air there as an enemy force."

Furthermore, NATO approves that the Greek F-16 caused the accident.

[saravakos]

yeah we are kissing your ass lately and supporting your entry into the EU...baffles me why

[Alexis]

Still this debate goes on!!
Scrambling military jets over the Aegean without flight plans is plain wrong. It doesn't matter who instigated what or who caused the accident, jet fighters in dogfights in close proximity to each other will always result in accidents. What we are losing sight of is the danger to commercial airliners and civilians. The behaviour of these governments is highly irresponsible.