Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

look at the map kifidis, it answers your question, as it shows accident(12miles far from that island) had happend even outside of self claimed greek fir(10miles), but in international zone...

As long as Turkey doesnt recognise self-claimed "fir" of Greece, it means nothing at all even at international area...

Obviously you confuse National airspace with F.I.R. Go and read what the difference of the two is, and then claim anything! And please, do not pretend the misspelling of my name, because I can do the same with yours.

[Kikapu]

Does anyone know what's on the island of Karpathos to cause the Greek jets to get there in a hurry? Also, where did the Greek jets take off from?. Reason I ask is, were the Turkish jets just playing around the Island of Karpathos waiting for the Greek jets to arrive, or were they just passing by. Or were the Greek jets were around waiting for the Turkish jet to arrive, which may have pissed somebody off to start a game of "chicken"

[akiner]

look at the map kifidis, it answers your question, as it shows accident(12miles far from that island) had happend even outside of self claimed greek fir(10miles), but in international zone...

As long as Turkey doesnt recognise self-claimed "fir" of Greece, it means nothing at all even at international area...

Obviously you confuse National airspace with F.I.R. Go and read what the difference of the two is, and then claim anything! And please, do not pretend the misspelling of my name, because I can do the same with yours.

"There is no standard size for FIRs, it is a matter for administrative convenience of the country concerned. In some cases there may exist a horizontal division of the FIR, in which case the lower portion remains named as such, whereas the airspace above is named Upper Information Region, or UIR."

As you show above size of Fir also self-determined one, and till Turkey recognise it, it means nothing, btw this wont change the truth. incedent had happend international zone... So Greece has no right to blame Turkey

[Kifeas]

Does anyone know what's on the island of Karpathos to cause the Greek jets to get there in a hurry? Also, where did the Greek jets take off from?. Reason I ask is, were the Turkish jets just playing around the Island of Karpathos waiting for the Greek jets to arrive, or were they just passing by. Or were the Greek jets were around waiting for the Turkish jet to arrive, which may have pissed somebody off to start a game of "chicken"

The story is as follows. Two Turkish F-16's and an RF-4 fandom equipped with aero-photographic equipment, entered the Greek F.I.R. and were flying to the direction of the island of Crete, without submitting their flight plans as they are required by I.C.A.O. regulations (the Turks claimed that they had previously informed NATO headquarters, but Greece says it did not get any such information from NATO.) As it usually happens whenever Turkish military jets -or any other flying objects- enter Greek FIR without submitting flight plans, two Greek F-16's took off from an airbase in Crete and met the 3 Turkish planes south of Karpathos. As it is customary, one of the Greek F-16's approached the RF-4 from the rear and to its side in order to identify it (presumably because without prior submission of flight plans, the Greek authorities are not in the position to know for certain what is the nationality of the planes appearing in their radars and what their mission is.) At this stage, one of the Two Turkish F-16's made a manoeuvre and flew from the rear direction and right over the Greek F-16 while the later was flying right next to the RF-4. While it was over it, the Turkish F-16 made a sudden downward movement and clashed its rear end with the top of the Greek F-16.

PS: The above narration was from the animated graphics shown by Greek TV.

[Kikapu]

Kifeas,
Thanks for the collision explanation and the territorial waters and air space also. The collision sounds similar to the one couple of years ago when a Chinese fighter jet collided with an American plane. The Chinese pilot was killed and the American plane had to make an emergency landing with a crew of 10 in a Chinese territory which they were held for a week or so.

It was reported that the Turkish pilot who had ejected and was picked up by a passing ship, and had refused to be taken ashore by a Greek helicopter from the ship. I don't know what that's all about, but something tells me that there's very little trust between those 2 nations. I wonder if it has anything to do with the downed Turkish pilot in 1964 in Cyprus we talked about 2 days ago.!!!

[saravakos]

basically, the fuckers were spying...and unfortunately one of our pilots has lost his life.

[complexity]

To begin with I would like to express that I am not a racist of any kind eventhough being racist or not is something on the lines of majority judgement of aspect. Indeed Piratis your words are correct. "What if turkey decides NOT to acknowledge the whole world tomorrow?" Does that make the whole world a disputed area for territorial ownership? I Think NOT!. In the meanwhile I would like to express that turkey has always been devious , cunniving , unstrategic and unthruthfull as a nation. The mission was clearly a monitoring/spy mission which turkey would never admit but the world is definately not stupid.

For all I care the turkish government will not be able to host a part of the EU apple pie in their country or diplomacy OR even democracy. For all I care all they can host is an atom bomb , a really big one , that turns them into a big desert. Perhaps that way they will be able to dispute over sand plots

I am not a bad person of any kind. I just think that looking back into turkish history they seem to play it with low blows and deviance.

Deep condolanses to all who mourn for the greek pilot and deep condolanses to the turkish people that have to live with the scars from their nation's leaders - It makes you look like murderers while its not the people but the government that should be hanged.


Mario

The Aegean issue is not an unstrategic issue in any way. Considering the fact that Greece occupied half of Turkey at one point causing hundreds of thousands of deaths, Turkish paranoia against Greece has its historical reasons. Turkey does not want to find itself in a strategically disadvantaged situation. Turkey should not be bullying its neighbors and try to have good relationships with them. However, not everything Turkey does is for an evil reason.

Funny you should mention that. If what you state is indeed fact by word from the Turkish history growing up to today's turkish military government then surely the fact that the Greek democratic government stated yesterday at a press release that turkey is unecessary within the EU is not true? Is this what you are trying to tell us? That the Greek government is delusional in every way and that we are conquering cancerous strategy implementing people? I very much doubt it... Turkey has ALWAYS been like this and as I said above it is NOT the people's fault , but the government. Have no doubt that in threat , the EU will use force against turkey simply to put down the military regime that holds turkey into a very old forgotten way of rule and I do believe that they would kill even millions of turkish people to do it.

This was a mess up from turkey and look where it got the poor greek pilot... Imagine something on a larger scale? What would it be? "Woops didnt want to drop that atomic bomb there , I wanted to drop it somewhere else...Sorry Greece" OR "Woops was that an atomic bomb? Bastards , I told them to fill it with water!"

Imagine the patience that the EU has with Turkey and had for that matter. If you ask me they are about to have the same fate as their american puppet masters UNLESS they really spin a 180 and start changing things , to begin with their government , and diplomatic channels (which are close to none comparing other countries such as Cyprus)

[complexity]

To begin with I would like to express that I am not a racist of any kind eventhough being racist or not is something on the lines of majority judgement of aspect. Indeed Piratis your words are correct. "What if turkey decides NOT to acknowledge the whole world tomorrow?" Does that make the whole world a disputed area for territorial ownership? I Think NOT!. In the meanwhile I would like to express that turkey has always been devious , cunniving , unstrategic and unthruthfull as a nation. The mission was clearly a monitoring/spy mission which turkey would never admit but the world is definately not stupid.

For all I care the turkish government will not be able to host a part of the EU apple pie in their country or diplomacy OR even democracy. For all I care all they can host is an atom bomb , a really big one , that turns them into a big desert. Perhaps that way they will be able to dispute over sand plots

I am not a bad person of any kind. I just think that looking back into turkish history they seem to play it with low blows and deviance.

Deep condolanses to all who mourn for the greek pilot and deep condolanses to the turkish people that have to live with the scars from their nation's leaders - It makes you look like murderers while its not the people but the government that should be hanged.


Mario

The Aegean issue is not an unstrategic issue in any way. Considering the fact that Greece occupied half of Turkey at one point causing hundreds of thousands of deaths, Turkish paranoia against Greece has its historical reasons. Turkey does not want to find itself in a strategically disadvantaged situation. Turkey should not be bullying its neighbors and try to have good relationships with them. However, not everything Turkey does is for an evil reason.

Funny you should mention that. If what you state is indeed fact by word from the Turkish history growing up to today's turkish military government then surely the fact that the Greek democratic government stated yesterday at a press release that turkey is unecessary within the EU is not true? Is this what you are trying to tell us? That the Greek government is delusional in every way and that we are conquering cancerous strategy implementing people? I very much doubt it... Turkey has ALWAYS been like this and as I said above it is NOT the people's fault , but the government. Have no doubt that in threat , the EU will use force against turkey simply to put down the military regime that holds turkey into a very old forgotten way of rule and I do believe that they would kill even millions of turkish people to do it.

This was a mess up from turkey and look where it got the poor greek pilot... Imagine something on a larger scale? What would it be? "Woops didnt want to drop that atomic bomb there , I wanted to drop it somewhere else...Sorry Greece" OR "Woops was that an atomic bomb? Bastards , I told them to fill it with water!"

Imagine the patience that the EU has with Turkey and had for that matter. If you ask me they are about to have the same fate as their american puppet masters UNLESS they really spin a 180 and start changing things , to begin with their government , and diplomatic channels (which are close to none comparing other countries such as Cyprus)

[cypezokyli]

an interesting article (in greek) arguing that at the place where the turkish planes where flying and according to international treaties , they are encouraged "tο the maximum extent practicable" , to give a plan of their planned flight, but they are not obliged to do that.

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text/c=110,id=79694636

[Alexis]

Rest assured the current proposals which will be mandated in the near future with regards Air Traffic Management in europe (such as the Single European Sky initiative) will hopefully put an end to this irresponsible and retarded behaviour on behalf of both the Greek and Turkish governments in scrambling jets over the Aegean. The list of near misses with commercial jets has been growing longer and longer endangering both civilian lives as well as those of military pilots. This incident should serve as a wake-up call to all concerned.