Cyprus-Forum.com

[saravakos]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 03,00.html

[cypezokyli]

THE AEGEAN DISPUTE
There are three main sources of tension between Turkey and Greece.
The most important of these centers around the Aegean. The Aegean
dispute is not really one dispute but a series of disputes: These relate
to limits on territorial sea, sovereign rights over the continental shelf
and airspace, management of the military and civil air-traffic control
zone, and the militarization of the Greek islands.5
For Turkey, the most important of these issues is the territorial sea issue.
Under the 1982 Law of the Sea Convention—which Turkey has
not signed—Greece has the right to extend its territorial waters to 12
miles although it has so far refrained from exercising that right.
Greek extension of the territorial waters from six to 12 miles would
make Turkish access to major ports, such as Istanbul and Izmir,
more difficult. Turkey has repeatedly said that any effort by Greece
to extend its territorial waters to 12 miles would constitute a casus
belli. This explicit threat to use force if Greece exercised its right to
extend its territorial waters has been a prime source of tension
between the two countries. Greek officials insist that there can be no
far-reaching rapprochement between Greece and Turkey as long as
Turkey continues to threaten to use force to settle outstanding
issues, especially ones in which Greek actions are consistent with
international law.

Turkey and Greece are also at odds over the Aegean airspace. Turkey
rejects the 10-mile airspace claimed by Greece, arguing that Greece is
entitled to exercise sovereignty only over six miles. To emphasize
this point, Turkey regularly sends its aircraft up to six miles from the
Greek coast. Greece responds to what it considers violations of its
airspace by sending aircraft to intercept the Turkish aircraft. The
mock dogfights and aerial challenges are a source of constant concern
to Turkey’s NATO allies, who worry that some incident or miscalculation
could lead to a major confrontation between the two
countries, as nearly happened during the Imia/Kardak crisis in
January/February 1996.
Turkey has offered to open a bilateral dialogue with Greece to resolve
these issues. However, Greece has rejected a broad-based bilateral
dialogue, arguing that there is only one issue that needs to be resolved—
the continental shelf. This issue, Greece argues, should be
submitted to the ICJ at the Hague for adjudication. However, Turkey
has refused to submit the issue to the ICJ, preferring instead to resolve
the issue through bilateral negotiations, where it feels it has
more leverage.

and if anyone is interested in the view of an anti-hellene....that is the person to whom the "den xehno" belongs to .... here s his opinion

Άλλο ένα μύθευμα, είναι οι τουρκικές παραβιάσεις στο Αιγαίο. Οι μόνοι σε όλο τον κόσμο που θεωρούν αυτά τα πράγματα παραβιάσεις, είμαστε εμείς. Ούτε οι διεθνείς αεροπορικές ομοσπονδίες, ούτε ο ΟΗΕ, ούτε οι μεγάλες δυνάμεις, ούτε οι αμερικανοί, ή οι ρώσοι δεν έχουν ίδια άποψη. Εμείς πριν 70 χρόνια βγάλαμε μια μονομερή απόφαση, κατά την οποία ο εναέριος χώρος της Ελλάδος, είναι στα 10 μίλια. Κανονικά ο εναέριος χώρος μιας χώρας, είναι ίδιος με τα χωρικά της ύδατα. Όταν είναι έξι μίλια τα χωρικά ύδατα, τόσος είναι και ο εναέριος χώρος. Δεν μπορεί ένα καράβι να είναι στα 8 μίλια σε διεθνή ύδατα, και το κατάρτι του σε ελληνικό εναέριο χώρο. Εμείς δεν το αναγνωρίζουμε αυτό. Έτσι οι τούρκοι μπαίνουν στο διεθνή χώρο και εμείς φωνάζουμε ότι είναι στον ελληνικό.

Δεν λέω ότι οι τούρκοι δεν ενδιαφέρονται για τα συμφέροντά τους. (Ο Ε. Βενιζέλος είχε πει: Δεν υπάρχουν εθνικά δίκαια – υπάρχουν εθνικά συμφέροντα). Αλλά όλα μπορούν να διευθετηθούν. Τις βραχονησίδες και την υφαλοκρηπίδα θα μπορούσαμε να τις λύσουμε με κοινές συμφωνίες και να τελειώνει η ιστορία.

http://www.ndimou.gr/articledisplay.asp ... &cat_id=39
(i would advice a number of people to read this interview )

always good to have more than one opinion on the matter , isnt it ?

[akiner]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 03,00.html

so according to this accident had happened(12miles) even outside area of greek(10 miles) claims... which is also turkey's claims

Quote:
THE AEGEAN DISPUTE
There are three main sources of tension between Turkey and Greece.
The most important of these centers around the Aegean. The Aegean
dispute is not really one dispute but a series of disputes: These relate
to limits on territorial sea, sovereign rights over the continental shelf
and airspace, management of the military and civil air-traffic control
zone, and the militarization of the Greek islands.5
For Turkey, the most important of these issues is the territorial sea issue.
Under the 1982 Law of the Sea Convention—which Turkey has
not signed—Greece has the right to extend its territorial waters to 12
miles although it has so far refrained from exercising that right.
Greek extension of the territorial waters from six to 12 miles would
make Turkish access to major ports, such as Istanbul and Izmir,
more difficult. Turkey has repeatedly said that any effort by Greece
to extend its territorial waters to 12 miles would constitute a casus
belli. This explicit threat to use force if Greece exercised its right to
extend its territorial waters has been a prime source of tension
between the two countries. Greek officials insist that there can be no
far-reaching rapprochement between Greece and Turkey as long as
Turkey continues to threaten to use force to settle outstanding
issues, especially ones in which Greek actions are consistent with
international law.

Turkey and Greece are also at odds over the Aegean airspace. Turkey
rejects the 10-mile airspace claimed by Greece, arguing that Greece is
entitled to exercise sovereignty only over six miles. To emphasize
this point, Turkey regularly sends its aircraft up to six miles from the
Greek coast. Greece responds to what it considers violations of its
airspace by sending aircraft to intercept the Turkish aircraft. The
mock dogfights and aerial challenges are a source of constant concern
to Turkey’s NATO allies, who worry that some incident or miscalculation
could lead to a major confrontation between the two
countries, as nearly happened during the Imia/Kardak crisis in
January/February 1996.
Turkey has offered to open a bilateral dialogue with Greece to resolve
these issues. However, Greece has rejected a broad-based bilateral
dialogue, arguing that there is only one issue that needs to be resolved—
the continental shelf. This issue, Greece argues, should be
submitted to the ICJ at the Hague for adjudication. However, Turkey
has refused to submit the issue to the ICJ, preferring instead to resolve
the issue through bilateral negotiations, where it feels it has
more leverage.



and if anyone is interested in the view of an anti-hellene....that is the person to whom the "den xehno" belongs to .... here s his opinion

Quote:
Άλλο ένα μύθευμα, είναι οι τουρκικές παραβιάσεις στο Αιγαίο. Οι μόνοι σε όλο τον κόσμο που θεωρούν αυτά τα πράγματα παραβιάσεις, είμαστε εμείς. Ούτε οι διεθνείς αεροπορικές ομοσπονδίες, ούτε ο ΟΗΕ, ούτε οι μεγάλες δυνάμεις, ούτε οι αμερικανοί, ή οι ρώσοι δεν έχουν ίδια άποψη. Εμείς πριν 70 χρόνια βγάλαμε μια μονομερή απόφαση, κατά την οποία ο εναέριος χώρος της Ελλάδος, είναι στα 10 μίλια. Κανονικά ο εναέριος χώρος μιας χώρας, είναι ίδιος με τα χωρικά της ύδατα. Όταν είναι έξι μίλια τα χωρικά ύδατα, τόσος είναι και ο εναέριος χώρος. Δεν μπορεί ένα καράβι να είναι στα 8 μίλια σε διεθνή ύδατα, και το κατάρτι του σε ελληνικό εναέριο χώρο. Εμείς δεν το αναγνωρίζουμε αυτό. Έτσι οι τούρκοι μπαίνουν στο διεθνή χώρο και εμείς φωνάζουμε ότι είναι στον ελληνικό.

Δεν λέω ότι οι τούρκοι δεν ενδιαφέρονται για τα συμφέροντά τους. (Ο Ε. Βενιζέλος είχε πει: Δεν υπάρχουν εθνικά δίκαια – υπάρχουν εθνικά συμφέροντα). Αλλά όλα μπορούν να διευθετηθούν. Τις βραχονησίδες και την υφαλοκρηπίδα θα μπορούσαμε να τις λύσουμε με κοινές συμφωνίες και να τελειώνει η ιστορία.


http://www.ndimou.gr/articledisplay.asp ... &cat_id=39
(i would advice a number of people to read this interview )

always good to have more than one opinion on the matter , isnt it ?

Same attitude like Armenians, Greece determines something and rejects all dialogues so what is next a self-claimed genocide of pontus whereas you need an international court decision to sentence some acction as genocide...
I wont be surpsided if that happend we are talking about my dear tiny mini superNAtional Greece

I wish Greece learned a lesson and would not try to convert all Aegean Sea a GREEK LAKE by all means anymore

[Antreis]

The genocide of Pontus is a well known fact.
The genocide of the Armenian people is also a fact.
The Sun rising on the East is also a fact.

[akiner]

The genocide of Pontus is a well known fact.
The genocide of the Armenian people is also a fact.
The Sun rising on the East is also a fact.

sorry for being offtopic but antreis choosed to answer that offtopic issue

Dear Antreis,
it is also well-known fact that from 1821 till 1920 at the time of recession on Balkans and Caucasia 5 million Turks got killed , 5.4 million Turks had become refugees. (J. McCarthy, Death and Exile, 1995,p.339)

Should Turkey call all these well-known facts as Genocide of Turks whereas term of genocide defined at 1945 internationally?!

Every war you lost against us probably become a genocide on your minds though, so i am just curious when you start to call Invader Greek Army Genocide at 1922...Stop being funny!

[Antreis]

The genocide of Pontus is a well known fact.
The genocide of the Armenian people is also a fact.
The Sun rising on the East is also a fact.

sorry for being offtopic but antreis choosed to answer that offtopic issue

Dear Antreis,
it is also well-known fact that from 1821 till 1920 at the time of recession on Balkans and Caucasia 5 million Turks got killed , 5.4 million Turks had become refugees. (J. McCarthy, Death and Exile, 1995,p.339)

Should Turkey call all these well-known facts as Genocide of Turks whereas term of genocide defined at 1945 internationally?!

Every war you lost against us probably become a genocide on your minds though, so i am just curious when you start to call Invader Greek Army Genocide at 1922...Stop being funny!

If we ever manage to kick the settlers out of Cyprus, these people will be called refugees by the turkish media?
You correctly used the world "recession" because that was what really occured.The turks were never invited to take over Balkans so there was a time to leave.Either by peaceful ways or by force.
Although the term genocide was defined and used only after 1943 , that fact did not prevent turkish authorities to practice it in full scale since the early 20th century.
Regards

[akiner]

The genocide of Pontus is a well known fact.
The genocide of the Armenian people is also a fact.
The Sun rising on the East is also a fact.

sorry for being offtopic but antreis choosed to answer that offtopic issue

Dear Antreis,
it is also well-known fact that from 1821 till 1920 at the time of recession on Balkans and Caucasia 5 million Turks got killed , 5.4 million Turks had become refugees. (J. McCarthy, Death and Exile, 1995,p.339)

Should Turkey call all these well-known facts as Genocide of Turks whereas term of genocide defined at 1945 internationally?!

Every war you lost against us probably become a genocide on your minds though, so i am just curious when you start to call Invader Greek Army Genocide at 1922...Stop being funny!

If we ever manage to kick the settlers out of Cyprus, these people will be called refugees by the turkish media?
You correctly used the world "recession" because that was what really occured.The turks were never invited to take over Balkans so there was a time to leave.Either by peaceful ways or by force.
Although the term genocide was defined and used only after 1943 , that fact did not prevent turkish authorities to practice it in full scale since the early 20th century.
Regards

so there was a time to leave.Either by peaceful ways or by force.

Thanx for reminding us one more time the sick ideology you feeded, so it is natural right of Greeks,Serbs,Armenians,..etc, to commit Turkic Genocides...

The turks were never invited to take over Balkans

Sorry i forgot, Greeks,Arabs,.....etc were promised for their own lands they lived/held at the time Adam created, what a lame excuse is that! and again this word of god also gives you to permission of massacres on Turks

[Antreis]

"So there was a time to leave.Either by peaceful ways or by force.

Thanx for reminding us one more time the sick ideology you feeded, so it is natural right of Greeks,Serbs,Armenians,..etc, to commit Turkic Genocides...

The turks were never invited to take over Balkans

Sorry i forgot, Greeks,Arabs,.....etc were promised for their own lands they lived/held at the time Adam created, what a lame excuse is that! and again this word of god also gives you to permission of massacres on Turks"

I never said that turkish genocide is an ACCEPTABLE way of solving problems.I am totally against it and i will fight other people in order to prevent such a thing ever happen.What we discuss here is the various historical perspectives on the role of the kemalian institutional genocide practices. After all Genocide is something that the kemalian regime was doing and still doing with with relatively easiness and in a scientifically efficient sort of way.
Don't forget that the Ottoman Empire did not employ such methods of mass murdering.It was after the revolution in Turkey that ethnic cleansing became a necessity.
As far as the promised lands are concerned only a certain nation on earth has such a stupid notion.

[miltiades]

Akiner , are you a Cypriot ?

[cypezokyli]

history is told like that in all the parts of he world. perhaps the new combined franco-german book might be an exception. lets hoppe that they will lead the way...

but in general history books , present victories either as something brave (when one conquers) or fair (when one attempts to free himself). on the other hand when we loose it is either bc of treason , and almost always the enemy was barbaric.

a typical example , what the ottomans did in the islands of hydra and psara (which by the way were not habited by "greeks" as such) is considered as a barbaric act , while the the killing of 32000 unarmed people in tripolitsa pelloponese is considered "freedom" and "right". the act itself was fundamentally the same