Cyprus-Forum.com

[kalahari]

As I trawl the various truths out there, trying to pin down the roots of the Cyprus problem I have moved on from Kissinger as my prime suspect to Rauf Denktash. In the period from 1960 to 1974 he seems to have been an elusive figure, but one thing is for certain – he was well aware of the build up to invasion. It seems not unreasonable, in the absence of evidence otherwise, to assume that he was at least partially responsible for orchestrating the invasion and the timing. His rise to power is evidently linked, and he is obviously a man driven by a single goal. Visiting "his" website makes that quickly apparent – the opening animation is quite hilarious in its geographical implications.

What I find deeply concerning is the content of this man's website, a sample of which I quote here:

http://www.rrdenktas.com/

When the British relinquished control over Cyprus in 1960, the Greeks were determined to remove the Turkish-speaking minority in order to achieve “Enosis” by means of homicide, exodus or a combination of both. They tried hard to achieve this goal, but did not succeed thanks to Turkey’s intervention in 1974.

This, it appears to me, is blatant revisionism. It basically accuses the Greek Cypriots of a Nazi-style genocidal philosophy. Where are the statistics to back this claim up? How many Turkish Cypriots did the Greek Cypriot community either kill or drive into exile prior in the period 1960 to 1974?

Another quote, from the same article:

...many Greek-speaking Cypriots consider them (Turkish Cypriots) as unwelcome foreigners, Muslims and lower class humans, next to animals; “Untermenschen” the Nazis would have called them.

I find this quite astonishing, as this is being published on what claims to be the website of the...

TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS PRESIDENT'S OFFICE

Is this a bogus website? If so, why has nobody taken any steps to have it removed? If not – can this really be the approved voice of a "government" that wishes to represent a "repressed" minority?

If this is NOT a bogus website, I am staggered by the irresponsibility and political naivety it displays to me.

My suspicions about Denktash's motives are growing daily, and I put it to you – despite his son being in "government" – will the Problem die with him? Is his "political" will all that is keeping it alive?

[cypezokyli]

denktash has been an important figure.
he is not one anymore. therefore alive or not , will have no concequences on the cyppro

[Piratis]

Denktash is just person whose views happened to be aligned with the views of the Turkish army which rules Turkey. The decisions are taken from the Turkish Generals directly. When a decision is taken then the TC leader either has to obey or he gets the boot.

Unfortunately for Denktash he didn't fit the new European mask that Turkey wears lately. So the army replaced him with a better puppet that fits their current needs better.

Kalahari, if so far your conclusion is that some individuals (Kissinger, Denktash etc) are the ones that determine the fate of Cyprus then I am afraid you are just scratching the surface. While some individuals played a negative role, the roots of the problem are much deeper than that and have to do with the geopolitical interests of those that have the big money and the big power. After all those are the ones who gain from this conflict and not Cypriots that most of them always lose the most.

[cypezokyli]

who gains from this conflict piratis ?

[akiner]

Denktash is just person whose views happened to be aligned with the views of the Turkish army which rules Turkey. The decisions are taken from the Turkish Generals directly. When a decision is taken then the TC leader either has to obey or he gets the boot.

Unfortunately for Denktash he didn't fit the new European mask that Turkey wears lately. So the army replaced him with a better puppet that fits their current needs better.

Kalahari, if so far your conclusion is that some individuals (Kissinger, Denktash etc) are the ones that determine the fate of Cyprus then I am afraid you are just scratching the surface. While some individuals played a negative role, the roots of the problem are much deeper than that and have to do with the geopolitical interests of those that have the big money and the big power. After all those are the ones who gain from this conflict and not Cypriots that most of them always lose the most.

Do you have any proof on this, or as usual you just trash talking

[Piratis]

who gains from this conflict piratis ?

The ones who should get nothing from Cyprus but they use the conflict to get.

Turkey shouldn't be in Cyprus, but they have 40.000 troops and along with the settlers they control 1/3rd of Cyprus

UK would have been kicked out of Cyprus if Cypriots were united. The conflict between GCs and TCs is what guarantees their bases. The AngloAmericans also have their Echelons and other military and secret service activity in Cyprus.

These are the ones who benefit from the conflict and since all of them would get much less if Cypriots were united serving their own common interests.

[cypezokyli]

and who sais that if the cypriots didnot fight each other these interests would have been challanged ?
in which country were these interests challanged ?
give me an example of country that kicked out military bases (after it has put its signiture that they would be in its territory) , just bc the people where united.

[Piratis]

Do you have any proof on this, or as usual you just trash talking

I guess everybody is talking trash, including EU who is demanding from Turkey to take away the power from the army if they want to join the EU.
The state has passed some laws on paper to reduce the power of the army, however in a country that the army has overthrown 4 governments in the last 45 years what the laws say is apparently irrelevant.

Even the USA talks directly with the Turkish army. Here is what Wolfowitz had said when Turkey refused to help them with Iraq.

Even more revealing was his criticism of the Turkish military, which he accused of holding back from forcing the elected government into line: “I think for whatever reason they did not play the strong leadership role on that issue that we would have expected.”

When politely reminded that the military (which has overthrown four elected governments in the last 45 years in Turkey) is usually criticized for interfering too much into politics, Wolfowitz responded: “I think it’s perfectly appropriate, especially in your system, for the military to say it was in Turkey’s interest to support the United States in that effort.(...) My impression is they didn’t say it with the kind of strength that would have made a difference.”

If the army was against the decision of the government on that issue, then with the approval of the USA they could have easily done another coup in turkey.

[akiner]

Do you have any proof on this, or as usual you just trash talking

I guess everybody is talking trash, including EU who is demanding from Turkey to take away the power from the army if they want to join the EU.
The state has passed some laws on paper to reduce the power of the army, however in a country that the army has overthrown 4 governments in the last 45 years what the laws say is apparently irrelevant.

Even the USA talks directly with the Turkish army. Here is what Wolfowitz had said when Turkey refused to help them with Iraq.

Even more revealing was his criticism of the Turkish military, which he accused of holding back from forcing the elected government into line: “I think for whatever reason they did not play the strong leadership role on that issue that we would have expected.”

When politely reminded that the military (which has overthrown four elected governments in the last 45 years in Turkey) is usually criticized for interfering too much into politics, Wolfowitz responded: “I think it’s perfectly appropriate, especially in your system, for the military to say it was in Turkey’s interest to support the United States in that effort.(...) My impression is they didn’t say it with the kind of strength that would have made a difference.”

If the army was against the decision of the government on that issue, then with the approval of the USA they could have easily done another coup in turkey.

What a great proof is that, it shows nothing but undemocratic-imperail feelings of Wolfi, i mentioned his stupidy on that way before...

[miltiades]

Piratis I agree with so much of what you say and indeed you posess a great deal of information and knowledge , but I fail to see that a united Cyprus will gaineven the slightest by "kicking the British bases out" You share the dislike of USA and Britain that so many others in Cyprus do. And it is partly this anti American anti British sentiments that I can not for the life of me understand the benefit that Cyprus can gain by nurturing and encouraging such emotions. The USA and Britain can be constructive in influencing Turkey, with the help of the EU and the Turkish Cypriots, into a less rigid position regarding Cyprus. But can any one tell me why should they ? For justice ? Fairness ? or because we like them so much !! No Sir , the only motive that all super powers throughout History had was their interests , and as I said before its about time that we also turn our attention towards Cyprus's interests and understand that the USA did not abandon us in 1974 , they just stood and watched an unfriendly nation "Mediterranean Cuba" I think they baptised us , being invaded and partly occupied by their powerful and loyal ally Turkey. Im not suggesting that if we began a change in attitudes towards the USA all will be well and good, but lets get off the Elephants back and make life easier for those Cypriots in the States that are campaigning for justice in Cyprus.