Cyprus-Forum.com

[MR-from-NG]

All right then! Supposedly, they start negotiating on all the parameters that the G/C side has objections with the Annan plan, but no matter what, there is no agreement between the two sides. What is going to happen in this case?

Simple, goodbye reunification, hello recognition. Can you really see anything else happening, I certainly cant.

[Kifeas]

All right then! Supposedly, they start negotiating on all the parameters that the G/C side has objections with the Annan plan, but no matter what, there is no agreement between the two sides. What is going to happen in this case?

Simple, goodbye reunification, hello recognition. Can you really see anything else happening, I certainly cant.

Therefore, you are saying, the Turkish and T/C side will have every incentive not to come forward and meet the G/C objections in good faith, and instead remain entrenched, because this will in the end open them the road for recognition, since this is what they were essentially been trying to achieve during the past 32 years.

[MR-from-NG]

Kifeas,

I think you will find the TC's have been showing "good faith" all along. It is high time the GC's did the same. As the saying goes "you can take the horse to the water but you cant make it drink". You guys should be big enough to accept the fact that you are the obstacle in the negotiations and not the TC's. Looking at the world media reports this is fact. But to you guys anybody who does not sing from the same hymn sheet is pro TC ant anti GC, you really must make more of an effort and stop this nonsense that you are superior to us TC's.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas,

I think you will find the TC's have been showing "good faith" all along. It is high time the GC's did the same. As the saying goes "you can take the horse to the water but you cant make it drink". You guys should be big enough to accept the fact that you are the obstacle in the negotiations and not the TC's. Looking at the world media reports this is fact. But to you guys anybody who does not sing from the same hymn sheet is pro TC ant anti GC, you really must make more of an effort and stop this nonsense that you are superior to us TC's.

I do not agree with you that the T/C (and the Turkish) side have been showing good faith all along, while the G/C side did not. Nor that this is what the international media reports acknowledge! Historically, since 1974, it is the G/C side that made the most essential and substantial compromises; and the very fact that is accepted in principle a solution on the basis of a bi-communal and a bi-zonal federation -considering all the historical, geographical and demographical realities of this country, proves the very fact of my claim. Of course, it goes without saying that the G/C side was “compelled” to make such a compromise in view of the illegal Turkish occupation and the fait accompli it had generated, nevertheless it is by definition and in view of the above realities and legitimate concerns, a huge compromise than needs to be appreciated and respected by the T/Cs.

Instead, we had for many-many 30 long years, a completely heartless, opportunistic and chauvinistic policy on the part of your historical leader Denktash, who together with the deep-state kemalists and in line with Ecevit’s doctrine that the Cyprus problem was solved in 1974, kept working for partition and recognition of a separate entity, something which had he been able to achieve, it would have been in the complete and full expense of the G/C community and most definitively in the expense of long lasting future peace in this country.

You will now tell me that in the end, your side came to accepting the Annan plan and it is the G/C side that rejected it! Well, the G/C side rejected the Annan plan because it was not a solution proposal based on a BB federation model, but instead on a BB confederation model. It was a solution proposal based on the philosophy of two “historically and legitimately” pre-existing almost sovereign “nation /states,” constituted by two different people that used to live side by side in their respective north and south territories, and who would now come together and form a connecting bond in the middle so that they will equally share the representation of Cyprus in the international forums and organizations. To achieve this outcome, those that constructed the Annan plan took the liberty to conceptually regard and /or assume the ethnic cleansing, occupation and property usurping fait accomplices of the Turkish invasion as the main starting point or basis, deviating from or disregarding existing UN resolutions, international law and human rights principles and rights, and completely disregarding for centuries old and pre-existing the Turkish invasion historical, demographical, geographical and other social realities of this country. In the end, they presented a plan which neither was balanced, nor fair for the G/C community, and naturally they left it with no other alternative than to reject it.

The Annan plan was nowhere near what we have imagined a solution on the basis of a bi-communal and a bi-zonal FEDERATION to have meant for us in practice. The UN and Annan know well what we want, in order for the plan to become more palatable and acceptable to our side, and what we want does not in anyway jeopardize any legitimate political, cultural and social rights and status of the T/C community. It does however jeopardize to a large extent the irredentist, nationalist, imperialist and megalomaniac aspirations and claims of the Turkish kemalist establishment, and this is why your community is not left alone and free to accommodate it. Furthermore, you should forget clichés like the one above, that we should stop seen our selves as superior to you, because this is a fantasy and it has nothing to do with the reality of our motives and pre-occupations.

[miltiades]

Mrfromng , I think if you study carefully what Kifeas has posted you will see a very reasonable assesment of the situation , especialy his remarks in dealing with your raised point of " superiority complex ".I also must state that I beleive the G/C position has moved considerably over the last 32 years , if only to accept that the democratic values of this nation have had to be re -assesed in order to accomodate a solution that is acceptable to the minority as well as the majority.I think you will agree that if the Turkish Cypriot community formed the 82% of the population ,and not the other way around , Cyprus , all of Cyprus would today be part of Turkey .I have always supported the complete independence of Cyprus , the total eradication of any foreign influences that are detrimental to the interests of Cyprus and the removal of all references to "motherland garbage". You can see that if the overwhelming majority of Greek and Turkish Cypriots were as proud as Im to be just Cypriots and participated in all walks of life as Cypriots first , ie Sport , football , Eurovision song ang generally anywhere that the Cyprus flag would be hoisted high , then the establishment of a common focus would eventualy unite us in spirit as well as in a political enviroment. My ambition is to witness the birth of a Cypriot political party embracing all Cypriots , and frankly I dont give a toss if it' s leader is Armenian ,Turkish , Greek or even a Russian.But Cypriots first. Just one last pont , I doubt very much you statement on " hello recognition." This would be anathema for Cyprus .The International community , including of course Europe , will never agree to it regardless of how much pressure they come under by the US or Britain. Turkey will have to show more flexibility as the European entry dream with all the benefits that it will bring to Turkey begins to unfold and approaches reality.
Regards

[Issy1956]

Miltiades,
Excellent post. I agree with everything you have said and I for one would have no hestitation in joining such a Pan-Cypriot party. I have always considered myself a Cypriot first and foremost. It is real pity that it has been so long and such a painful road for us to get to this juncture from where we were in the 50's with the majority seeking Enosis. I still wonder what percentage of GC still consider themselves to be Greeks who happen to live in Cyprus rather than just Cypriots.

[MR-from-NG]

Kifeas, Miltiades,

I thank you both for your comments. Miltiades , you have shown to be a very rational and intelligent individual with genuine desire for peace on our island. I congratulate you for the respect you show for your compatriots the TC's.

I share your enthusiasm and goal for a lasting and meaningful settlement to the Cyprob but have reservations. Issy 1956 asks the percentage of GC's living in Cyprus consider themselves Greek. The answer is simple, I forgot both the team names but last year there was a football game between a GC and a Turkish side. The first game was in Nicosia, there was not a single Cypriot flag to be seen. I think this answers Issy's question, it should also make you think long and hard as to the mammoth task ahead of us all in reunifying the island and for both communities to live side by side in peace.

MAY THE FUTURE BE BRIGHT FOR ALL CYPRIOTS.

[miltiades]

In the 50s I joined demonstrations in support of ENOSIS as did most Greek Cypriots apart from the Communists.
Hand on my heart I can say that I never nurtured any hatred for the Turkish Cypriots , earlier on I mentioned that part of my childhood was spent in the Limassol Pediki Stegi (Orphanage ) where all children interacted with each other unaware of ethnic diversities. In the Uk since 1961 I have met and did business with many Cypriots Greek and Turkish , I found over the years that most are Cypriots first because they feel compelled to be in a common field where the goal posts are the same . If nationalistic tendencies , which are perfectly natural , but not necessarily virtuous , were to be kept under control , or even better were to be directed towards Cyprus rathen than the Foreign Nations currently being the recipients of Nationalistic fervour , then perhaps one day we will have a football stadium in Cyprus where the Cypriot flag would be hoisted by all Cypriots in a match against either Greece or Turkey.

[Issy1956]

Amen

[Kikapu]

. In the Uk since 1961 I have met and did business with many Cypriots Greek and Turkish , I found over the years that most are Cypriots first because they feel compelled to be in a common field where the goal posts are the same . .

Miltiades,

What you have stated is very true. I always wondered why it was OK for the Greek and Turkish Cypriots to live and work in close quartes, mostly in North London, even after the '74 invasion till today, but the same could not be done in Cyprus itself. I can only speculate that, those TC's who remained on the island after all that had happened from '63 to '74, and those GC's after '74 were left to deal with the horrors of war, pain and suffering, which had harden these people as if it had taken a young wine to muture, that took 43 years.

If it was ever possible to switch places with all the ex-patriots Cypriots with all the Cypriots on the island today, I'm 100% certain the country would function as normal as any other country. Since that will not be possible, next best thing to do would be to open up the Famagusta area that is sitting empty, and invite ex-patriots in huge numbers to this area to mingle with each other, bringing their friends and family that live on the island along as if it was a "blind date", to show them, that this is how Turks and Greeks live away from Cyprus.

Which politicians on either side is going to be brave enough to take on this mission will deserve to be elected the next president of United Cyprus. This of course will be the 64 thousand Dollar question. If the politician want to preserve their positions as they enjoy now and are using the Cypriot as pawns and do not want progress, then there's always the next election, which I would say, "throw the bums out".