Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Metecyp, this is exactly what I was saying. The brits gave us many chances and suggested plans to end colonisation in a set time, but we wouldn't listen. We started an armed struggle in 1955 that was doomed to fail and failed it did, discredited as well, because the murdering fiends of EOKA killed more Cypriots and civilians than british military. If the brits wanted to harm us then EOKA actions gave them a first class opportunity. In fact, adopting the cretin logic, I could say that the brtits financed the EOKA movement because it suited them and their long range plans. Some claim that EOKA was made up by young idealists. That is a convenient way to hush up its responsibilities.

On the other hand, EOKA B was financed by the brits and the yanks, say some and they are dead sure of their claim. In this way they absolve all Cypriots of any responsibility. For them, its not possible that EOKA B had young idealists in its ranks whose actions were fuelled by sick nationalist propaganda from schools and peers.

Its also very heroic. All alone, we face the might of the most powerful world powers and we are still standing!. These kinds of megalomaniac ideas also fuel the claims of those that fill our little minds that we are descendants of the glorious classical Greeks, who enlightened the world. Alas, we are not but barbarians, who learned to speak greek.

[-mikkie2-]

Its also very heroic. All alone, we face the might of the most powerful world powers and we are still standing!. These kinds of megalomaniac ideas also fuel the claims of those that fill our little minds that we are descendants of the glorious classical Greeks, who enlightened the world. Alas, we are not but barbarians, who learned to speak greek.

What an excellent thesis Bananiot.

I have to say that this time you have excelled. Top of the class!

So we have big ideas for our little minds. Are we second class humans in your opinion? If standing up for human rights and dignity (and I mean that for all Cypriots) is a crime then I should have been put in jail long ago. Your blanket accusations and assumptions about what people think in this forum is comical. There is no discussion with you, just that we should accept what you think. Are you a dictator in the making by any chance?

And in your opinion, from what I can gather, is that Turkey is absolved of all responsibility for her crimes in Cyprus, just because we were stupid and that we should feel very lucky that we were given the A plan with all its wonderful provisions. Great. Fantastic.

[Bananiot]

"If standing up for human rights and dignity (and I mean that for all Cypriots) is a crime then I should have been put in jail long ago".

So this is how you see things! In 1963 when we unilaterally attempted to change the constitution (before the ink of our signature dried up) we were standing up and fighting for our human rights and they also included the rights of the TC's ? What about the dignity of the hundreds of TC women and children murdered in Maratha, Aloa, Sandalaris and elsewhere? Do you know of any GC who was brought to justice or served time for these artocities? I can tell you that they were given cushy government jobs and within certain circles of our community they enjoy a hero's status. You may ask me. Haven't the TC's committed crimes. Of course they did. However, the nationalists within the TC community could easily have been contained by the progressive TC alone. What did we do to help them? We did absolutely nothing and on top of this we fueled with our stupid actions the cause of the TC nationalists throwing the TC's into the arms of Denktash and Turkey.

The word dignity has lost its meaning, it seems. We cry about our human rights but most of us live in luxury and care not about the human suffering which occurs around us and very close to Cyprus. The issue of the Sudanese south, for example, finds Cypriots completely uninterested and its hardly reported in newspapers. We are a society of hypocrites and selfish megalomaniacs. Our kids have everything at their disposal and share none of the humanitarian values which may be described as "european way of life".

Human rights and dignity. My foot!

[-mikkie2-]

What kind of BS are you peddling?

What about the suffering of the refugees in Cyprus? Are they living like kings?

What about the crimes perpertrated against us by Turkish soldiers? The systematic mass rapes of women, the mass killings of people, the destruction of our heritage. What about these crimes that have not been accounted for?

Perhaps you should go work for the UN as you seem to have a very clear idea on who to blame, who to accuse, who to punish.

[brother]

This debate has rapidly dissintegrated into a squabble with you both belittling each other, listen to what the other has to say and maybe try and understand where they are coming from.

There is a lot of blame, enough to go around but the most constructive way forward is to accept our wrongs from the past and try to make amends then look at going forward with ideas that unites us all not that serve the interests of one side only.

[Bananiot]

Sorry brother, but let us settle this. I know about the crimes committed by certain members of my community. I am not ashamed of them. This is easy to say. Any fool can say this. It does not cost anything. I am crying out, a huge apology, for the pain and suffering we have caused to many innocent TC compatriots. My TC friends feel exactly like me about the sufferings and agony caused by Turkey and TMT against my community. We need to recognise all these crimes and promise that we will never allow the hot heads to repeat them.

When my friend Hasan tells me how his two teenage brothers were butchered in a village close to Nicosia, I cannot turn and tell him "listen, your people did worse". I said to him, one day in his house, "take this knife and kill me". He hugged me and started crying.

In short, we need to recognise and accept full responsibility for all crimes committed. We need to apologise to each other, mourn together, turn a new page and promise that these atrocities will never be repeated. True Cypriots have no problem with the above. Some do not want to hear. Most of them is because they were actively involved in massacres or have been brain washed by nationalists.

[-mikkie2-]

Bananiot,

Nobody can argue with what you say regarding the attrocities committed. My view is that a court will need to be set up and all occurances of past crimes need to be examined and the perpertrators brought to justice. That includes GC, TC, Greek and Turk.

However, I do not agree with your thesis that we should just accept what is being given to us. We need a solution that trully brings us together. The Annan plan as it stands does not do that in my opinion. It keeps us seperate.

The new constitution will not allow us to change things in the future without consent from Turkey, Greece, UK and UN. This should be changed by agreement of European Court and UN to ensure that any constitutional changes are fair to all. I do not want to see Turkey, Greece or UK 'guaranteeing' our separation!

[pantelis]

We need to be able to distinguish between bananas and cucumbers.

Yes, crimes were committed against Turkish Cypriots.
Yes, organized groups terrorized and committed atrocities on both sides and in many cases against "their own" side.

Yes, the leadership on both sides, did not handle the problems effectively.

Yes, foreign interests were served at the expense of the local interests.

No, the coup of 74 did not occur in order to unite Cyprus with Greece.

No, the Turkish invasion did not occur in order to save the Turkish Cypriots from genocide, nor to prevent Greece from annexing Cyprus.

The above events occurred without the participation and approval of the vast majority of the people, from both communities.

Instead of correcting the situation and promoting peaceful and fair coexistence of the the two communities, instead of arresting and punishing the criminals who instigated and cultivated the hatred and commmitted the crimes and atrocities, the international community stood idle to watch Turkey punish the entire population of the island for a 30 year period. They watched Turkey, with apathy, change the character of a place and people formed over thousands of years, within a few decades. The crimes of a few people are equated with the crimes of the expansionist plans of the Turkish oligarchy.
The international community wants to call this justice and expects the Cypriot people to sign off the titles of their civilization and human dignity away through the disguised "unification" plan that carries the name of some corrupt UN official, as if the people cannot smell the decomposition that the plan contains hidden in its 9000 pages.
The crimes of a few cannot serve to excuse and justify the crimes of Turkey and the interested great powers, at the expense of the people of a small land.
Cucumbers are not bananas and vice versa.

Should the ROC use its right of veto on Turkey's EU ambitions? Will Turkey begin to respect the human rights of the Turkish people and the people Cyprus, once she gets a green light to the EU Avenue?
I live this decision to the progressive forces of the Turkish Cypriots. They should advise us what to do. In the worst case scenario, the Greek Cypriots will see no change of attitude from Turkey, with or without the veto. We have nothing left to lose.

What I do not understand is not how Turkey get away with crimes against a few hundred thousand Cypriots outside her borders, but getting away of the crimes against a few tens of millions of people within her "own" borders, in front of the naked eyes of a bunch of hypocritical peace/freedom- loving Europeans. Are they saving the real reforms for Turkey, once they have her in their own yard and the gate is closed?

[brother]

Bananniot i will let you resolve that debate and stay out of it

[brother]

pantelis,
that is a interseting opinion but we the cypriots are more to blame for the current situation than turkey is.
Maybe if our elected leaders on both sides wanted truely to resolve the issue i believe they could have by now.

The mentality of constantly blaming turkey gets us nowhere and our reluctant leaders who sit about doing nothing but giving out a statement every now and again are out true letdown.

Think about what i am saying before you start to verbally attack me please.