Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Kifeas , I always read your posts and you have an impressive ability to present facts and historical events with clarity and distinction. Let me disagree on your comments on "honour this person as my compatriot "
Will you please believe me when I say that I genuinely , hand on my heart , consider all Cypriots to be my compatriots even the ones that are uncomplimentary at times.I think what this young man did , Pasha , is not only admirable , courageous but also a statesman like gesture and he should be applauded for being a true Cypriot.
How else Kifeas do we safeguard the future of our Island if we are not appreciative of a mans' statement that indeed he loves his country and he is first and foremost a Cypriot.A small step for a Cypriot is a massive achievement for Cyprus.Let us give peace and reconciliation a chance. Cyprus deserves a break.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas , I always read your posts and you have an impressive ability to present facts and historical events with clarity and distinction. Let me disagree on your comments on "honour this person as my compatriot "
Will you please believe me when I say that I genuinely , hand on my heart , consider all Cypriots to be my compatriots even the ones that are uncomplimentary at times.I think what this young man did , Pasha , is not only admirable , courageous but also a statesman like gesture and he should be applauded for being a true Cypriot.
How else Kifeas do we safeguard the future of our Island if we are not appreciative of a mans' statement that indeed he loves his country and he is first and foremost a Cypriot.A small step for a Cypriot is a massive achievement for Cyprus.Let us give peace and reconciliation a chance. Cyprus deserves a break.

Miltiades, can you seriously say that someone who spits in your face and tells you in the most cynical way possible that whatever is grabbed with bloodshed -no matter how immoral and illegal such an act is, cannot be returned, can possibly ever be regarded as your compatriot?

Do you understand what this person is saying? He is simply and plainly telling you that you should never expect the return of your stolen properties and your stolen homeland with peaceful means, but instead that you should prepare yourself to repeat and cause the same bloodshed, in order to take them back, because this is the only way his side will return what they "won" in your loss, i.e. with the use of force and bloodshed. In other words, your “compatriot” thinks and speaks straight out of the books of the ottoman philosophy, logic and practice, which I am sure he is most proud of!

This person not only has no respect and regard for justice and morality, or that he feels the slightest sorrow for your suffering, but he further feels proud and joyful about the achievements of his side against you as a G/C, and he even feels the need to rub them in your face. Now, it is your right to consider such cynical and profoundly morally inferior and worthless individual as your compatriot. In my turn, I will keep wondering what with such "compatriots" do we need really our enemies for.

Just remember what he said! "Whatever is taken with bloodshed cannot be returned!" In other words, if you are bigger, more numerous and stronger, you have the right to go out and grab other people's belongings, and as long as you cause or suffer bloodshed, your spoils are legitimately yours! This is Pasha’s –a true ottoman offspring's philosophy!

[miltiades]

Kifeas , I do not honestly consider any Cypriot to be inferior or worthless . I do not think that any Cypriot considers the events of 1974 and before as the proudest moments of the history of Cyprus. Whether you like it or not , they are out compatriots and I believe that when you and all other Cypriots accept in your hearts that the Turkish Cypriots are as much KIPREI as you and I are , then perhaps they will reciprocate and join us to form the Cyprus of the future.
Maybe because I spend time as a child sharing a room and eating at the same table with Cypriot Turks , that I have an affinity with my Cypriot countrymen. You know my views on patriotism and religion , you know that my heart is in the right place. I interact with Cypriot Turks , as well as Greeks in my daily working life in the UK , and I honestly consider all Cypriots to be my countrymen.
Finally Kifeas can you see in the future a solution where foreign troops move out of Cyprus ? Can I also refer you to some of my posts earlier where my position as far as the division of Cyprus is concerned is abundantly clear.
Pasha has come a long way since the statements that you mention , all of us can go a long way if we are shown respect and acceptance of our birth right to be in our country, not as second class citizens but as proud Cypriots.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas , I do not honestly consider any Cypriot to be inferior or worthless . I do not think that any Cypriot considers the events of 1974 and before as the proudest moments of the history of Cyprus. Whether you like it or not , they are out compatriots and I believe that when you and all other Cypriots accept in your hearts that the Turkish Cypriots are as much KIPREI as you and I are , then perhaps they will reciprocate and join us to form the Cyprus of the future.
Maybe because I spend time as a child sharing a room and eating at the same table with Cypriot Turks , that I have an affinity with my Cypriot countrymen. You know my views on patriotism and religion , you know that my heart is in the right place. I interact with Cypriot Turks , as well as Greeks in my daily working life in the UK , and I honestly consider all Cypriots to be my countrymen.
Finally Kifeas can you see in the future a solution where foreign troops move out of Cyprus ? Can I also refer you to some of my posts earlier where my position as far as the division of Cyprus is concerned is abundantly clear.
Pasha has come a long way since the statements that you mention , all of us can go a long way if we are shown respect and acceptance of our birth right to be in our country, not as second class citizens but as proud Cypriots.

No Miltiades, you still do not get it! Whatever I said above has absolutely nothing to do with the fact (or not) that Pasha is a Turkish Cypriot, or that the Turkish Cypriots should (or should not) be regarded as our compatriots! I would have made precisely the same comments, should Pasha's words were coming out of the mouth of a Greek Cypriot! You completely miss my point!

And yes, in my book, if someone uses pathetic arguments such as the ones Pasha used, is a morally inferior and worthless individual!

[Pasha]

Kifeas again you are attempting to put words into my mouth! When did I ever say that the only way you will receive your properties would be by bloodshed? I was only repeating what the Greeks of the time had said, nothing more!

Now, I'm all for reunification and everything but sometimes however much I feel it's a good idea theres always the odd doubt that creeps into my mind. I know a lot of GC's, and you wouldnt believe the attitude of some of their parents! The actual words I was told that explained this man's attitude towards us was "If he had one wish it would be for all Turks to die", and not only this, something really hit me the other day.

I was on the way out, and on a fence was some graffiti. I walked past it, but then I actually stopped, turned around and went back to read it because it actually caught my attention that much. It was written in Greek, but I'm able to read it and understand some bits, and I will repeat what it said here:

"gamo tous tourkos" with a picture of Cyprus crudely drawn next to it, and in case no-one understood that, they had written eloquently next to it in English ,"Fuck Turks"

The worst thing is, it was no doubt written by the younger generation as well.

I don't know how you guys take this, but it actually made me feel like shit.

[miltiades]

Such behaviour by young misguided G/Cs using inflammatory language is doing Cyprus a tremendous amount of damage.There are many , but still in the minority , who think with their arse and not their brain , I asked such individuals many times how do they propose to unite Cyprus as one nation , and the answer is always the same .Kick the Turks out. ! When asked how and with whose army they blabber on about forcing them into submission via stricter controls , tighter isolation and always follow up by having a dig at the culprits responsible for our plight ie the Americans and the British. When will they realize that Cyprus belongs to both communities , and the T/Cs are the only force that will drive the Turkish troops out of Cyprus , but only when , like us , they feel comfortable and part of Cyprus.
I have been called a traitor by these dickheads because I'm a realist and believe in the future of Cyprus as one nation that embraces all communities .
Back to the graffiti on the wall , I apologise on behalf of these brainwashed youngsters , and I would treat such graffiti with utter contempt.

[Pasha]

No need to apologise on their behalf!

Thing is, the corruption of the young is still continued today. The Greek schools teaching the students reminds me of the way children were taught in Nazi Germany! A Greek friend of mine was told in her school that knowing Turkish people was a bad thing, and that they were dogs. In another school they were taught TC's oppressed the GC's pre '74 and in another they were taught that the TC's backstabbed the GC's!

I've noticed a trend that depending on which school they went to, the story is completely different. Everything will continue as it is unless people wake up to these issues.

[Alexis]

Thing is, the corruption of the young is still continued today. The Greek schools teaching the students reminds me of the way children were taught in Nazi Germany! A Greek friend of mine was told in her school that knowing Turkish people was a bad thing, and that they were dogs. In another school they were taught TC's oppressed the GC's pre '74 and in another they were taught that the TC's backstabbed the GC's!

I don't remember this from school, but then again maybe I missed something. I guess Turkish Cypriot schools never refer to the 1974 intervention as being a "peace operation"? I guess also they never teach that all the GC casualties from that time were either terrorists or attributed to the coupists!
Of course I am not saying that these things never happened in Greek Schools but it is a big thing to claim that teaching kids to 'hate' Turks is part of the curriculum, you need to 'prove' this.

[Alexander]

No need to apologise on their behalf!

Thing is, the corruption of the young is still continued today. The Greek schools teaching the students reminds me of the way children were taught in Nazi Germany! A Greek friend of mine was told in her school that knowing Turkish people was a bad thing, and that they were dogs. In another school they were taught TC's oppressed the GC's pre '74 and in another they were taught that the TC's backstabbed the GC's!

I've noticed a trend that depending on which school they went to, the story is completely different. Everything will continue as it is unless people wake up to these issues.

You do make this crap up as you go along. This comes from a people that deny the genocide of a million Armenians, and the near genocide of thousands of Kurds. I think that you can be safely labeled Barbaric without risk of a successful litigation. Being murdered, or your village burned to the ground maybe, but not much chance at the Court of Human Rights.

[saravakos]

i never heard that and no-ones ever told me that. i find that VERY hard to believe