Cyprus-Forum.com

[malaka]

Pressed the wrong key , I continue .Are you suggesting that the part of Cyprus that is occupied , Yes It is a fact , by 40000 Foreign troops , YES IT IS A FACT , that this part which is not recognised by any nation on this planet ,considers the ROC as illegal ? This was my question. That the ROC will on reaching a solution renames it self is a fore gone conclusion.Propagandas from all sides will solve nothing. Realities are formulated by events recognised by the international community and not by the might of the sword.

The TRNC is recognized by Turkey and relations with other nations are improving as we speak.

The dissolving of the "RoC" and the TRNC and the establish of a united Cyprus we part of the Annan plan which GCs rejected and demonised but imo will form the basis for any future negotiaitons.
What you to have understand is that we the TRNC matter and how we view the south because it is us you have to sit down and negotiate with. Other countries may recognize you but its not them that you have to find a solution with, if it were possible Im sure you have done it long ago.

And you reckon I sound 11

What you have to understand is that nobody cares what a thief views anything like.

[Viewpoint]

What you have to understand is that if you want a united Cyprus it is that person you call a thief and try to degrade, that have to negotiate and ultimately live with, so deal with it and get over yourself.

[sadik]

The issue of settlers will of course be part of the solution and is a subject for negotiation, but under conventional international norms many of the settlers that have been here for years can and should be considered Cypriots, especially those who were born here. The only thing in their way is the fact that the state which allowed them to stay was an illegal entity. That said we would be violating these people's human rights if we force them to leave on what in practical terms is a technicality. I strongly believe that the issue of settlers is a problem caused almost 100% by Turkey and the TCs so it should be considered that allowing them to stay is a fair compromise on behalf of the GC community and this should be acknowledged in negotiations, but the question I would ask is, how would we be any better than Turkey if we force these people to leave?

Hi Alexis, I agree with you in general.

The issue of settlers is a problem that was 100% created by Turkey. They were first brought in 1975 to harvest the crop that was decaying in the fields and process the land. But then they were given citizenship and started to vote in elections with Turkish Cypriots. The main reason behind this is to increase the population and be able to control Turkish Cypriots which they don't completely trust. They have shamelessly been used for political gain by the previous political administration. Before the previous elections, the nationalist party which was about to loose the elections, granted 2000 citizenship in one day. Despite that, they lost the elections and these citizenships were removed when Talat took office.

We know all these things and why they were brought here. But, now, after 32 years, what can we do about it? Can we change the fact that those who arrived here in 1975 now have grandchildren born in Cyprus, for whom the only life they know is in Cyprus. Many of them speak with a Cypriot accent, and they consider themselves Cypriot.

My suggestion is using a mixed approach based on certain criteria and human condition by: 1- having some of them leaving, 2- some of them staying with a residency permit with no voting rights, 3- some of them becoming citizens. In any case, they should not be placed on GC property. Turkey should be generous and pay for the costs, including their compensations, land, houses, etc...

[miltiades]

You are correct that only the creator recognizes TRNC .
The Annan plan also afforded Turkey , a nation that the 80% of Cypriots with whom you also have to sit down and negotiate , additional powers that the majority of the 80% rejected as unreasonable and as a plan that would eventually cause more problems
As far as Im concerned Cyprus belongs not to the majority or the minority but to all genuine Cypriots. For as long as you are in Turkeys nickers , and we are in Greeces pocket , we shall never find a viable working solution.
Get rid of the preposterous ideas that Turkey is your motherland (same for the Greeks and Greece ) and tell your self that YOU ARE CYPRIOTS FIRST ANF FOREMOST.
The Annan plan did nothing for me , and Im Sir a true Cypriot above all else , and a PAFITIS at that! (from Pafos)
Can I make a suggestion that all motherland suckers on both sides get on their bike and piss off to Motherland and leave Cyprus to the Cypriots , Greeks and Turks. And take your foreign flags with you. !!!

[Viewpoint]

All a matter of economics, a long as we are kept hostage we are bound to Turkey the sooner GCs realize this the sooner we can move away from Turkey. The south is really cuting of it snose despites it face but this may be the exactly what they want. If it was anything else they would have been working with us to improve matters and show the world that the 2 communites can work and proper together without outside interference.

[Alexis]

My suggestion is using a mixed approach based on certain criteria and human condition by: 1- having some of them leaving, 2- some of them staying with a residency permit with no voting rights, 3- some of them becoming citizens. In any case, they should not be placed on GC property. Turkey should be generous and pay for the costs, including their compensations, land, houses, etc...

Glad you agree with me Sadik. I think actually that we should be even more generous than that to the settlers. We should use the internationally accepted norms that if you live and contribute to a country's economy for a number of years, this gives you residency rights at least, if not automatic citizenship. We must also give some consideration to those who were born in Cyprus, or have lived here for a considerable period of time (say more than 10 years) whether they have been directly contibuting to the economy or not. We also need to realise that many of these settlers are not doctors or professors but nonetheless have earned their right to live in Cyprus. I agree that the settlers issue is also linked to the issue of property and voting rights, and on these issues further negotiation would be needed to thrash out details of how property should be dealt with. In this day and age we the GC community must realise that we cannot continue to have this xenophobic attitude towards these settlers.

[Kifeas]

My suggestion is using a mixed approach based on certain criteria and human condition by: 1- having some of them leaving, 2- some of them staying with a residency permit with no voting rights, 3- some of them becoming citizens. In any case, they should not be placed on GC property. Turkey should be generous and pay for the costs, including their compensations, land, houses, etc...

Glad you agree with me Sadik. I think actually that we should be even more generous than that to the settlers. We should use the internationally accepted norms that if you live and contribute to a country's economy for a number of years, this gives you residency rights at least, if not automatic citizenship. We must also give some consideration to those who were born in Cyprus, or have lived here for a considerable period of time (say more than 10 years) whether they have been directly contibuting to the economy or not. We also need to realise that many of these settlers are not doctors or professors but nonetheless have earned their right to live in Cyprus. I agree that the settlers issue is also linked to the issue of property and voting rights, and on these issues further negotiation would be needed to thrash out details of how property should be dealt with. In this day and age we the GC community must realise that we cannot continue to have this xenophobic attitude towards these settlers.

Alexios, would you have said the same, if instead of 100,000 settlers, Turkey would have allowed or have brought 500,000 of them, out of which half of them would have been born in Cyprus at any stage during the past 32 years? I believe, when we make certain such claims, we should also know what we are talking about first, and what other implications these claims have towards the rights of the legal people of this country, and not just to throw slogans in order to appear nice and humanistic!

[cypezokyli]

perhaps we could discuss the dangers the settlers actually pose. the "change of the demographics" itself is a nice sentence but it is not a real danger in itself. its a term that hides inside real and perceived dangers. i would attempt to present some of these problems and if you have anymore to add you are more than welcome.
in order to do this i will have to make an analysis from a point of view i disagree with. i.e. form a gc (and not simply cypriot ) point of view.

- big problem has to do with residence and its implication this can have on the refuggee

- there is the dangers that tc + settlers overtake us , populationwise. (i dont find, that serious but anyway)
this can mean : erosion of the cypriot culture (imo , that is a danger which is mostly present for the tcs rather than us)
-on the political level , and assuming a bicommunal system there is never a possibility of becoming a minority
-internal stability : the fear that the settlers can be instrumentalised by turkey.
-security problem

in short the problem is political and should be solved as such
now, how many of these dangers are real or perceived is another story.
.....
on the other hand some counter arguements could be :

-the settlers are not that many and are actually assimilated in the cypriot culture rather the otherway around
-settlers are human beings like the rest of the people.
-rising population has never hurt any country.
-the above fears have no foundation , and can be taken as seriously as the "secret gc plans to greekfy the north immidiately after a solution"

the settlers are a humanitarian problem and should be cinsider as such
now how many of the above arguments have any foundation , is another story

[Viewpoint]

My suggestion is using a mixed approach based on certain criteria and human condition by: 1- having some of them leaving, 2- some of them staying with a residency permit with no voting rights, 3- some of them becoming citizens. In any case, they should not be placed on GC property. Turkey should be generous and pay for the costs, including their compensations, land, houses, etc...

Glad you agree with me Sadik. I think actually that we should be even more generous than that to the settlers. We should use the internationally accepted norms that if you live and contribute to a country's economy for a number of years, this gives you residency rights at least, if not automatic citizenship. We must also give some consideration to those who were born in Cyprus, or have lived here for a considerable period of time (say more than 10 years) whether they have been directly contibuting to the economy or not. We also need to realise that many of these settlers are not doctors or professors but nonetheless have earned their right to live in Cyprus. I agree that the settlers issue is also linked to the issue of property and voting rights, and on these issues further negotiation would be needed to thrash out details of how property should be dealt with. In this day and age we the GC community must realise that we cannot continue to have this xenophobic attitude towards these settlers.

Alexios, would you have said the same, if instead of 100,000 settlers, Turkey would have allowed or have brought 500,000 of them, out of which half of them would have been born in Cyprus at any stage during the past 32 years? I believe, when we make certain such claims, we should also know what we are talking about first, and what other implications these claims have towards the rights of the legal people of this country, and not just to throw slogans in order to appear nice and humanistic!

In other words Alexios you do not know what the hell you are talking about and Kifeas is the expert on all matters, the oracle The arrogance of the man knows no bounds.

[ivan hardon]

How many Pontian Greeks and Russians have been made "Cypriots by the "RoC"???

THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU THAT ,,,,,, JUST HOW MANY TURKS HAVE COME TO CYPRUS.


i NOW KNOW WHAT ROC MEANS...... RACIST OLD COOTS