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Kissinger: sinister architect of the Cyprus Problem?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby cypezokyli » Thu May 11, 2006 10:58 pm

http://www.makarios.ws/cgibin/hweb?-A=286&-V=history

http://www.makarios.ws/cgibin/hweb?-A=283&-V=history

http://www.makarios.ws/cgibin/hweb?-A=283&-V=history

the calls of kissinger in 1974 (in greek)
theres a whole report on this side.
(ofcource , be aware that the above researcher , has been accused of being payed by the ...you know who :wink: .
ofcource not for this research specifically....you know....for some others.....the ones that say...well it might also be our fault.
in short this one is safe. you can read it without feeling insulted)
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Postby StuartN » Thu May 11, 2006 11:11 pm

Unfortunately my Greek is limited to " No- I am not intending to buy a house in the North, and yes you're quite welcome to go through my bags (again), but (like last time) all you'll find are some geological maps and a hammer"

Any chance of a pointer to a translation?

:D
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Postby kalahari » Fri May 12, 2006 3:12 am

Kissinger's motives:

Cypezokyli; like me you seek to understand Kissinger's motives. It seems unbelievable that any man of such high office could act in such a way, condemning thousands of people to death, exile and their homeland to over thirty years of division without a motive, no matter how high or low that motive might be. But Kissinger was an unbelievably bad diplomat – that much has become apparent.

He is undeniably guilty of putting the interests of the United States above those of any other country, even if it meant shattering that country.

I was not aware of the fact that Nixon lost office one week before the second invasion. I think it is therefore reasonable to say that whatever influence Kissinger brought to bear on the first invasion, it is highly unlikely that he had any input at all in the second.

Let's check some dates:

May 1974 Kissinger sends telegram instructing a Greek/EOKA coup against Makarios.

June 1974 Kissinger sends a second telegram instructing coup to commence.

July 2 1974 Makarios accuses Greeks under Ioannides of attempting to overthrow Cypriot government through military means.

July 15 1974 Greeks carry out coup d'etat and attempted assassination on Makarios encouraged by Kissinger. Led by EOKA's Nicos Sampson, and Greek generals, Greek Cypriots attack Turkish cypriots and Greek cypriot Makarios supporters alike.

Makarios calls for emergency meeting of the UN which Kissinger succeeds in delaying. Turkey prepares to invade Cyprus, ostensibly to protect Turkish Cypriots.

July 16 Makarios flees to UK via Malta.

July 17 Kissinger leaks to the NYT that US prefers Sampson and his terrorists to Makarios.

July 18 Nicos Sampson installed, apparently with Kissinger's blessing.

July 19 Kissinger refuses a request from the US ambassador to Greece to position the Sixth Fleet off the north coast of Cyprus.

July 20 Turkey invades.

July 22 Cease fire declared. Turkey violates cease fire.

July 23 The governments of Ioanides and Sampson both collapse. Makarios reinstated.

July 30 Declaration of Geneva: second cease fire declared. Again Turkey violates. Kissinger does nothing.

August 9th 1974 Nixon resigns over Watergate. Kissinger not implicated, described as "the clean man of the bunch". Ford inaugurated as new president. The 9th was a Friday.

August 10th, 11th The weekend – which one would imagine was a busy one for Mr Kissinger.

August 13 US State Department, under the new President, issues this statement: "The U.S. position is as follows: we recognize the position of the Turkish community on Cyprus requires considerable improvement and protection. We have supported a greater degree of autonomy for them. The parties are negotiating on one or more Turkish autonomous areas. The avenues of diplomacy have not been exhausted and therefore the U.S. would consider a resort to military action unjustified. We have made this clear to all parties." The 13th was a Tuesday.

August 14 In talks Turkey demands that Cyrpus recognises the NTC state. Cyprus requests a recess of 24 hours to consult, Turkey denies this. Talks break up, and half an hour later Turkey presses on with a renewed attack forcing 200,000 GC's from their homes. No action is taken by the US.

Thereafter, US foreign policy goes generally rather quiet in the run up to the passing of the Foreign Assistance Act in December 1974, which was designed to cut off military funding to the Saigon government and encourage its collapse. America pulled out of Vietnam in the April of 2005.

Can we assume that Kissinger's eye had been taken off the ball after the resignation of Nixon?

Can we also assume that the "flea" that was Cyprus, was no longer worthy of the "elephant"'s even pasing interest?

I think that both assumptions would be reasonable, given the lack of evidence to the contrary.

I am proposing therefore that after the fall of Nixon, Kissinger lost whatever interest he might have previously had in Cyprus and just forgot it – his passing shot being the statement of the 13th.

Prior to the resignation of Nixon, what then were his motives?

Well, let's look at the possibilities:

1) Ignorance, inability and not really giving a toss who or what Cyprus was. A real possibility, backed up by this quote:

Secretary Kissinger knew nothing about Cyprus and did not bother to inform himself. As a result, he absent- mindedly let the Greek junta mount a coup in Cyprus that incited a Turkish invasion.


Well is that really the case? The secret telegrams instructing the coup would tend to suggest not.

2) A wicked desire to see Cyprus pay for insulting Lyndon B Johnson, as suggested by Piritas's quote:

America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. Greece is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked good.


Well, it's plausible, but given that this took place ten years earlier, when Kissinger was a relatively young Republican with no office or influence that I can find any evidence of. I feel it unlikely that Kissinger would have carried on any vendetta passed on to him by Johnson – but I could be wrong of course.

3) A desire to cause partition.

Here's the big question again – if this was his motivation, WHY?

Was it a carefully orchestrated and promised "gift" to Turkey? But why would he risk splitting up NATO to do that?

Was it to overthrow Makarios? Well, that happened before the invasion, so why allow the invasion to happen then?

Was it to overthrow Makarios AND the Greek Colonels. Because it was the Turkish invasion of Cyrpus that led to the demise of the Greek Colonels. Well that's a possibility I suppose, but what a convoluted way of going about things.

Having said that, we were never supposed to know about the secret telegrams. Who else didn't know about them? Obviously not the US diplomat George Ball, who is quoted by StuartN (thanks Stu) as writing in his memoirs:

Trying to run the State Department singlehandedly from an airplane, Secretary Kissinger knew nothing about Cyprus and did not bother to inform himself. As a result, he absent- mindedly let the Greek junta mount a coup in Cyprus that incited a Turkish invasion.

Well, if the secret telegrams are to be believed, he knew exactly what he was doing, and there was no absent mindedness involved.

Which profile of Kissinger do you think fits? The absent-minded dolt, or the callous machiavellian intriguer?

So maybe, just maybe, the primary reason for Kissinger's plans in Cyprus was to depose the Greek dictatorship (with its potential communist connections).

Makarios was meant to be eliminated as well, but got away.

Sampson was never meant to survive, as the invasion was planned to remove both him and the Greek dictatorship – which it very promptly did. After Ioannides had gone, Makarios and Enosis was no longer a threat, so the need to eliminate him had also gone.

The primary motive had been achieved. Ioannides and the threat of a communist sympathiser at the NATO table had been removed.

With Nixon gone and the withdrawal from Saigon on the agenda, Kissinger's attention moved on. Turkey immediately (only days after) launched their second invasion, secure in the knowledge that Kissinger wouldn't lift a finger to stop them.

Partition had taken place, but it had never been Kissinger's aim to achieve this. He just didn't care one way or another, and it wasn't worth upsetting the loyal Turks over it, as they had done their bit – and with the second largest military force in NATO sitting on the shores of the Black Sea, Kissinger wasn't about to piss them off over some little rock in the eastern Med.

Well, that's my theory – for now at least.
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Postby cypezokyli » Fri May 12, 2006 9:15 pm

ok , thats another stealing but....
its another point of view.... one of those we dont like :

Lawrence Eagleburger, a longtime American diplomat who briefly served as the first President Bush's secretary of state, once told me that ''American foreign policy -- more often than I think should be the case -- is affected . . . by ethnic politics. Some of the things we ended up doing or not doing in Cyprus, for example, were purely and simply because of the Greek lobby."

Eagleburger said that there was no question that we ended up with a Cyprus policy quite different from what Henry Kissinger wanted. Cyprus had been an island divided between hostile Greek and Turkish communities when a Greek faction overthrew the government of Greek patriarch Archbishop Makarios, setting off a chain of events that led to a Turkish invasion and occupation of the northern part of Cyprus in 1974.

''The Greeks created the mess, not the Turks," Eagleburger told me, and in Kissinger's view US policy should have reflected that. But a strong pro-Greek effort led by prominent Greek-Americans, some of them big-time contributors to the Republican Party and Richard Nixon, closed ranks and put up enough resistance to tilt US policy toward the Greeks. ''If we were able to have been more neutral," Eagleburger said, ''we might have been able to keep the Turks from being as intransigent as they later became, " and the island might not have remained divided as it is today. But ''the Turks could never believe we could have a balance position . . . so the whole situation got locked in cement."


http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editor ... _politics/
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Postby kalahari » Sat May 13, 2006 12:54 am

ok , thats another stealing but....
its another point of view.... one of those we dont like :


Cyp, I don't understand what you're getting at. Please explain.
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Postby cypezokyli » Sat May 13, 2006 12:58 am

nothing really.
i just found it interesting to introduce variables we never considered before like the greek lobby.
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Postby kalahari » Sat May 13, 2006 6:25 pm

Hi Cyp

I've read the article, another fascinating insight into power politics, and more background around it.

It is worth saying, I believe, that the Turks felt that Kissinger had "promised" them a territory in Northern Cyprus. When Kissinger went quiet on them, after the inauguration of Ford and the subsequent statement by the State Department, (which clearly states that the US was no longer going to support military action,) ...

The avenues of diplomacy have not been exhausted and therefore the U.S. would consider a resort to military action unjustified. We have made this clear to all parties.


...I believe they panicked and went for the second invasion in the belief that Kissinger would support their action. In fact, Kissinger had moved on and was no longer even remotely interested in Cyprus, the Greeks or the Turks.

The Turks then got stuck in the position they have been in ever since, desperate for the US State Department to do what they believed alll along Kissinger would do, ie recognise the Turkish Dependency of Northern Cyprus.

Kissinger did not betray the Turks. He simply didn't care about them any more. He was, after all an elephant (to borrow from Johnson's phrase).

I previously posted a suggestion that a good way forward might be to allow the Turks a leased military base in the North of a united Cyprus.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5710&highlight=

Having now researched the Kissinger topic, and come to the above conclusions, I now think that this suggestion has real merit and is worthy of our further consideration. Your thoughts please!
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Postby rolo » Tue May 16, 2006 9:32 pm

hi

why did kissinger want turkey in Cyprus?

what was k's intention for cyprus?

are there americans on cyprus?



imho..........

3 apparently so, they use the british bases

2 k's intention was quite neutral initially, but when Makarios started getting a bit too chummy with the soviets, well you can imagine


1 ah conspiracy theory.............................hmm well turkey had started to get its act together, even through the coups her economy was still capitast greed driven, which suited america fine. Turkey like Greece allied to us throuh nato. Turkey provides the greatest number of troops to nato, as well as having distinguished themselves alongside the americans and british in battle in korea, still protecting europes eastern front the spread of comminism.

well basically turks did have a bit of clout as a usa ally. and reckon the turks with their knowledge of ks disslike of President Makarios, influenced k to agree to some kind of something to happen on cyprus significant to warrant guarentor power deployment.
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Postby cypezokyli » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:48 pm

very interesting and long document. a discussion between makarios and kisinger.
anyone willing to transalte or summarize it , for th enon-greek speakers ?
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Postby andri_cy » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:22 pm

cypezokyli wrote:very interesting and long document. a discussion between makarios and kisinger.
anyone willing to transalte or summarize it , for th enon-greek speakers ?



which one?
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