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Kissinger: sinister architect of the Cyprus Problem?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Thu May 11, 2006 12:59 am

I think he childishly said I will show you....

Not really andri. It was part of their policy.

Here is a quote from an interesting article "Athens Under the Americans" http://www.anagnosis.gr/index.php?pageID=231&la=eng

At Christmas 1963 communal fighting had broken out between Greek and Turkish Cypriots. The British had spying facilities in the Troodos Mountains, and were unwilling to see them threatened. The Johnson administration proposed partition, rejected by Greece on behalf of the majority Greek population. In mid-1964 a proposal was made that Greece give up Kastellorizo. When the Greek ambassador said that the Greek parliament and constitution had not authorised to him to give away parts of his country, President Johnson let the customary cover of diplomacy slip, revealing the realities of US power politics, and yelled: 'Fuck your parliament and your constitution. America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. Greece is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked good ...We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your Prime Minister gives me talk about democracy, parliament and constitution, he, his parliament and his constitution may not last long... Don’t forget to tell old Papa-what's-his-name what Ι told you.' When Athens complained, Johnson rang up the ambassador and threatened him: 'You had no call putting in all them words Ι used on you. Watch your step.'
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Postby andri_cy » Thu May 11, 2006 1:19 am

Wow. I have never heard of this before. Thanks.
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Postby Mills Chapman » Thu May 11, 2006 2:13 am

This looks like interesting reading - not directly related, but interesting nonetheless: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Greece_KH.html
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Postby kalahari » Thu May 11, 2006 7:35 am

"Wow" is right Andri.

Thank you Piratis. This is explosive stuff, and starts to make much more sense. The truth is starting to unravel.

You see, I could not figure out why the Turkish army did not invade after 1963 – the situation was much the same, if not worse, the justification was sitting right there. But Turkey did not move.

Mills, I will read your article tonight – I look forward to it.

So what we are unravelling here is that Kissinger was carrying out a threat made by Johnson to shaft Cyprus good in vengeance for not kow-towing to his whim.

The Cyprus problem is a deliberate American construct.

Turkey was complicit, yes, but the next thing we need to unravel is why did Turkey invade for a second time in 74? We know that Kissinger was not only funding them, but also supporting them. Was he actually writing the script too?

A script that went: "You do what I tell you too, or you're next on the shafting list."

Turkey was the hit man. Greece was the stooge. Cyprus was the victim. America was the Godfather.
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Postby cypezokyli » Thu May 11, 2006 9:36 am

well i am not sure if we have managed in this thread to find the true motives of kissinger.
i still need a real solid reason why it was in the interest of the USA to divide cyprus ?
i am not saying they didnot play a role. but still i miss the motive.

just comenting on 1963, it was the heteful "big powers" that prevented an invasion to happen and not anything else (our power / greece / international law or whatever. and somehow we came to believe that,that would always be the case. we didnot try to wipe out those reasons /excuses that turkey used in 1963 , so they wouldnot use them again.
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Postby andri_cy » Thu May 11, 2006 10:48 am

The motive we may never really find out...
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Postby Greek goddess » Thu May 11, 2006 12:25 pm

andri_cy wrote:The motive we may never really find out...


The motive! Simple
Turkey and Greece fight over Cyprus
Then the usa can influence their decisions by pretending to look for a solution
If Greece and turkey are friends then the influence of the usa is nullified.

It is a similar policy that the U.K. adopted in relation to the India Pakistan and the little Kashmir story.
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Postby StuartN » Thu May 11, 2006 12:27 pm

This is from http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/Ball%20-%2064.htm


During my years in the State Department, Secretary Rusk and I worked on a completely alter ego basis' which meant that, when Rusk was away, he did not, as he made clear, "take the keys of his office with him." As Acting Secretary of State, I was in a position, when necessary, to move incisively, with the President's approval; Rusk established the same ground rules with my successor, Nicholas Katzenbach.

The importance of such an arrangement was disclosed in July 1974Cten years after the crisis I have just described. This time, unhappily, the United States failed to respond. Trying to run the State Department singlehandedly from an airplane. Secretary Kissinger knew nothing about Cyprus and did not bother to inform himself. As a result, he absent- mindedly let the Greek junta mount a coup in Cyprus that incited a Turkish invasion. When the Turks swarmed across the island, the Nixon AdministrationCunder pressure from the Greek lobbyCstopped arms shipments to Turkey and alienated the eastern anchor of our southern flank defense. As of this writing, 36 percent of Cyprus, including the most attractive tourist areas, remains under occupation by the Turkish army. Greece and Turkey are at sword's point and both are on uneasy terms with the United States and NATO. Makarios is dead, and the partition that might have solved Cyprus's problems has now been achieved by force and in a manner tragically unfair to the Greek Cypriotes.

The moral is clear: effective diplomacy for a great nation requires a constant high-quality institutional vigilance. That is not possible when all decisions are preempted by an individual virtuoso with a lust for travel.



It doesn't make clear WHY but it does give an indication of the objective - partition.
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Postby StuartN » Thu May 11, 2006 1:02 pm

This again is from the same source and worthy of examination and comment.

The role of the United States in the events of July 1974 are among the most contentious still remaining. Many Greek Cypriots believe that the American secretary of state, Henry Kissinger, sided first with the rogue regime under Nicos Sampson, and then sided with the Turkish government in its decision to intervene militarily. Law-abiding supporters of Makarios thus feel buffeted on two scores, and this view is backed by anecdote and inclination. The latter is twofold: the U.S. had, in its longtime policy of anti-communism, welcomed the 1967 coup in Athens, and had been very bumptious with Makarios because of his role as a leader of the non-aligned movement. This is apparent as early as 1964 in the memoir of George Ball, and it was quite obvious thereafter. This consistent policy of supporting anti-communists tilted Washington toward anyone willing to do its bidding in the long struggle against the Soviet Union. Hence, support for the Greek junta, and momentary support for Sampson over Makarios.

The attitude toward Turkey followed similar lines. Turkey was a stalwart ally in the Cold War. Much of America’s policies in the Eastern Mediterranean can be explained by this singular point-of-view, even after the collapse of the USSR. (The U.S. also gave tacit - - and maybe explicit - - approval of the military coup in Turkey in 1980.) A priority has been to prevent conflict between Turkey and Greece, which Washington has consistently acted to do, but this is also best understood in the context of the Cold War and the significance of preserving the southeastern flank of NATO.

In Cyprus in 1974, then, the policies of the United States supported, however briefly and tangentially, the criminal regime of Sampson, because he was an anti-communist in the Grivas tradition and he was installed with the help of the Greek fascist junta. When this became untenable, the U.S. backed off. It did relatively little to prevent the Turkish invasion of July, launched in response to the Sampson coup. When Turkey invaded for the second time a month later, this too earned a quiet nod from Washington, in that it did nothing much to stop it. A second variant on this theme is that Kissinger had foreknowledge of the Greek-instigated coup of July and the Turkish invasions, and did nothing to stop any of these events when a word of warning may have sufficed.

But one must ask, was there anything concrete, apart from verbal warnings, that the U.S. could do to stop the Greek colonels from attacking Makarios in July and the Turkish government and military from intervening in July and again in August? It is more likely in the first case than the second that such foreknowledge could have prevented the events from unfolding. There was a distaste for Makarios in official Washington, but that does not mean the U.S. supported his ouster in advance; a threat to cut off aid to Athens or to isolate the regime politically may have sufficed to prevent the coup in Nicosia. But it may also be that the junta, tottering as it was, would have pursued its reckless course in any case. One must recall that the creation of EOKA and EOKA B, the many plots against Makarios, and the Greek junta itself were not creations of the CIA, but creations of Greeks and Greek Cypriots themselves. They were the plotters and implementers of these heinous crimes. That America stood by is in some respects shameful, but not the root cause.

In the case of the August invasion, it’s highly improbable that even a little more could be done. Nixon’s presidency was in shambles, and there were far more important issues at hand - - Vietnam, the Israeli-Arab confrontation, and relations with the Soviet Union more generally, at a time when the U.S. president was close to a psychotic breakdown. (Nixon resigned one week before the second Turkish invasion.) Committing to a course of toughness and perhaps sanctions or a naval blockade against Turkey at that point was a very difficult task, and, in the view of American policy makers, hardly worth the possible repercussions.

The charges made against Kissinger and the United States are plausible, of course, which is why the notion of complicity or conspiracy is far from absurd. The U.S. has done in many regimes when it suited: Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Chile in 1973, and so forth. Kissinger was a first-class plotter and dissembler, and he was capable of anything. The popular notion of U.S. involvement was articulated most intelligently in the 1998 book, The Cyprus Conspiracy, but the authors’ evidence is not strong. The main argument - - that the U.S. acted in Turkey’s favor to maintain its intelligence facilities on the British bases - - does not quite add up: those facilities, even if in some sort of jeopardy, were being superceded by other technical means. And the case rests on evidence of a Pentagon plan to deal with partition of the island, but the Pentagon has plans to cover virtually any eventuality, so the existence of a particular plan relating to Cyprus - - among many others - - is not evidence of American intentions. There are also suggestions, based on a remark by James Callaghan, the British foreign secretary, that Britain was contemplating a naval blockade to prevent a Turkish invasion, and the U.S. vetoed it. That is plausible, but it is hardly evidence of conspiracy when America acts in a restrained manner to forgo what could have been a very costly and even catastrophic naval action. [See reviews of The Cyprus Conspiracy.]

The United States improvised and did what it could, awkwardly and without ethics, to lower the possibility of a war between Greece and Turkey. That the island was partitioned was, in Washington’s eyes, an unfortunate but hardly troubling outcome. Perhaps this is the source of Cypriot anger---not because the U.S. did too little, but because it never considered Cyprus to be important enough to do more. It is impossible to say with confidence what might have occurred with more American pressure on Turkey not to intervene in August, but it is likely that Turkey would have proceeded anyway. That was in their planning, and they showed no signs of being restrained from something they felt they should have done many years before.
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Postby cypezokyli » Thu May 11, 2006 1:21 pm

thanks for the above article stuart. in a sence it does show that motives cannot be "simple"

Greek goddess wrote:
andri_cy wrote:The motive we may never really find out...


The motive! Simple
Turkey and Greece fight over Cyprus
Then the usa can influence their decisions by pretending to look for a solution
If Greece and turkey are friends then the influence of the usa is nullified.

It is a similar policy that the U.K. adopted in relation to the India Pakistan and the little Kashmir story.

as far as i know , from kissinger ,he did nothing to prevent the invasion against cyprus, but he was quite concerned in avoiding a general war between greece and turkey. never forget the context : we are talking about two NATO powers going to war against each other in the middle of the cold war!

like the artucle above sais : we know what they did , and we know that it was not "clean" , but still i need a sound reason. why was / is (bc today the interests might have changed :wink: ) partition to the interest of the USA?
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