Cyprus-Forum.com

[StuartN]

Difficult one growuptc's - and there's people on here I'm sure who are better educated in child psychology than me who could perhaps answer..... my initial thought (and I'm quite happy to be shot down in flames!) is that the little ones - in the North or South, dispossesed or not, are educated to know that where they live now (or were born, if it's the same place) is their home -

My next though is surely that for a little one, home is where mum and dad are. (If they're fortunate enough to have both)

[Piratis]

Can you explain what the ROC Government has "sown" in way of a settlement and do you expect anything to grow from these things which have been "sown"?

The RoC goverment has "sown" acceptance for legality with everything that goes with it.

michalis,cypezokyli, viewpoint etc. Why do you avoid answering a straight question? Your refusal to make clear your intentions about some very significant things such as democracy, human rights and equality of all people regardless of their race/religion/ethnic background etc, can mean 2 things:

1) You have an intention that you prefer to keep hidden from the rest. (like it was the case when GCs and TCs were agreeing in 1960)
2) What was supported before, that the Annan plan could be made more workable and more acceptable are just empty words, and what you support is the Annan plan and its racist provisions as the final destination for Cyprus.

[miltiades]

StuartN , you are so right mate , those inocent little ones consider home where mummy and daddy are., until their little brains are slowly indoctrinated by the mosques and churches and flags and all the other cancerous ideologies that are the curse of civilization , the only reason wars are fought and lives are lost.

[cypezokyli]

Can you explain what the ROC Government has "sown" in way of a settlement and do you expect anything to grow from these things which have been "sown"?

The RoC goverment has "sown" acceptance for legality with everything that goes with it.

michalis,cypezokyli, viewpoint etc. Why do you avoid answering a straight question? Your refusal to make clear your intentions about some very significant things such as democracy, human rights and equality of all people regardless of their race/religion/ethnic background etc, can mean 2 things:

1) You have an intention that you prefer to keep hidden from the rest. (like it was the case when GCs and TCs were agreeing in 1960)
2) What was supported before, that the Annan plan could be made more workable and more acceptable are just empty words, and what you support is the Annan plan and its racist provisions as the final destination for Cyprus.

i knew what you hat in mind , and you knew that i knew it from the very beggining. you asked for the final destination and after i gave you one you were not satisfied , bc , the final destination doesnot fit piratis criteria. and the reality was , that you didnot really care about the final destination of other people , but if the final destination included your criteria.
we have been through this over 1000 times, and it is getting tiring.

you know that with these word games that you are trying , you are creating a final destination that only the gcs would like to be at. the tcs with a vast majority wouldnt want to join us at our final destination. so, it is in short, not a destination for all cypriots but the final destination for gcs only. and if we cannot convince (unless you can ) the majority of the tcs to join us at the final destination , i dont see the point of taking that journey. not to mention that taking that journey will have one specific final destination - partition.

and please dont give a clever answer of the kind : is demanding our human rights partitionists? bc you know exactly what i am talking about

its the very same thing we have done cycles for whole months up to now.
if you are willing for another cycle, let me know.

[StuartN]

Miltiades

until their little brains are slowly indoctrinated by the mosques and churches and flags

and unfortunately, in CY, the schools.

[Piratis]

i knew what you hat in mind , and you knew that i knew it from the very beggining. you asked for the final destination and after i gave you one you were not satisfied , bc , the final destination doesnot fit piratis criteria.

Piratis criteria? Go out in Germany and ask the Germans if living in a country with human rights violations, which will discriminate people based on their race/religion/ethnic background etc is something that meets their criteria. You will see that "my" criteria are in fact the criteria of most democratic people around the whole world. (of course if you go and ask the neo-Nazis there then you might get an answer closer to what you support).

you are creating a final destination that only the gcs would like to be at. the tcs with a vast majority wouldnt want to join us at our final destination. so, it is in short, not a destination for all cypriots but the final destination for gcs only.

So whats the final destination that TCs want? Human rights violations, racist discriminations etc? Well, there is a minority of neo-nazis in Germany that agree with that as well, but should the rest of Germans agree to such things just to satisfy them? (and when those Nazis had the power, wouldn't it be better if the rest of Germans fought against such things instead of saying: "oh well, there is nothing we can do. Racism and discriminations should be accepted"?)

What I am asking for is nothing short of what every self respecting democrat would ask around the world. If some people are not democrats and they don't care about human rights then they should be the ones who should change their position, and not the other way around.

[cypezokyli]

stuart,
whats your thoughts on how GCs should explain the Cyprus problem to their kids, after the little ones ask who lives in our homes now?
Please explain

when i entered my grandfathers house i expected to be confronted with the occupier. i expected at least a person with army boots ready to eat fresh gc flesh. i realised that the occupier was an old woman over 80 years old, living there alone , not able to take care of herself tottally depdended on the goodwill of her neighbours. if you can hate an 80 year old woman , i cannot. and above all i would never teach my kid to do so.

let me tell you what i would have told my kid.
firstly, i would try to explain to my kid that there is a huge difference between people and politicians. that it was wrong that my grandfather was forced to leave , but the person currently living in the house is unlikely to be his faults. the fault lies in the leadership and not in the people.

in no case would i try to describe the person who currently lives in my grandfathers house as "barbaric" "murderer" "bloodthirsty invader" or whatever. the reasons are numerous :
1. i would never want to have a small kids heart filled with hate
2. it could be that the person living in there is a tc who has lost his own people during the conflict and he doesnt have a house to return there anymore.
3. it could be that in that house lives currently another small kid , who doesnt have a clue what war means. imagine learning my shild calling a kid that was born in 2000 : you are a bastard turk. its all your fault !!!

learning a small kid to hate is one of the worst crimes you can commit. its one thing to teach your kid what happenned, but learning it to hate other kids its just sick. there is no other way to describe it.

[Piratis]

In fact in our schools there is nothing said against TCs. In most occasions they are potrait as victims as well.

On the other hand the Turkish army is portrait in its right dimension: an illegal occupying force in our country, and I hope nobody suggests that our kids should be taught something different.

[cypezokyli]

i knew what you hat in mind , and you knew that i knew it from the very beggining. you asked for the final destination and after i gave you one you were not satisfied , bc , the final destination doesnot fit piratis criteria.

Piratis criteria? Go out in Germany and ask the Germans if living in a country with human rights violations, which will discriminate people based on their race/religion/ethnic background etc is something that meets their criteria. You will see that "my" criteria are in fact the criteria of most democratic people around the whole world. (of course if you go and ask the neo-Nazis there then you might get an answer closer to what you support).

you are creating a final destination that only the gcs would like to be at. the tcs with a vast majority wouldnt want to join us at our final destination. so, it is in short, not a destination for all cypriots but the final destination for gcs only.

So whats the final destination that TCs want? Human rights violations, racist discriminations etc? Well, there is a minority of neo-nazis in Germany that agree with that as well, but should the rest of Germans agree to such things just to satisfy them? (and when those Nazis had the power, wouldn't it be better if the rest of Germans fought against such things instead of saying: "oh well, there is nothing we can do. Racism and discriminations should be accepted"?)

What I am asking for is nothing short of what every self respecting democrat would ask around the world. If some people are not democrats and they don't care about human rights then they should be the ones who should change their position, and not the other way around.

clever answer as i expected. more or less saying : the majority of the tcs are neonazis bc they do not agree with piratis.

anyway... all the best with your final destination.
i am sure there are currently thousands of tcs waiting to get their ticket to that place.

....
let me put it this way. if you manage to convince the majority of the tcs to join in that final destination (without any kind of force, threat or coersion) reserve a ticket for me as well. if it is going to be just "us" , then i dont see the point of going.

[Piratis]

clever answer as i expected. more or less saying : the majority of the tcs are neonazis bc they do not agree with piratis.

I didn't say that. You said that TCs wouldn't like to live in a country were human rights are respected and all people are equal regardless of their race/religion/language etc. Personally I believe that just like many germans during WWII were brainwashed by Hitler (and the rest were silenced) the same happens today in Turkey and the occupied areas by the nazi-like military regime that rules Turkey.

let me put it this way. if you manage to convince the majority of the tcs to join in that final destination (without any kind of force, threat or coersion) reserve a ticket for me as well. if it is going to be just "us" , then i dont see the point of going.

Well, if the rest of the world said that to the Nazis and let them had whatever racist and undemocratic they had asked for then all the germans would think "Hey, Hitler must be right. Nobody said he is wrong and look at all the nice benefits racism and discriminations brought to us".

Those TCs and GCs that believe that racism and discriminations will benefit them should be made to understand that this is not the case and that they can only lose by insisting on such things. Otherwise we only encourage them to continue in the same way.