Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

I really can't see why you are blowing your top. Anyway, perhaps you know that Kikis Kazamias was a Minister (and a successful one) who resigned after only one year in the hot seat, because he did not agree with Papadopoulos on the Annan Plan. Yet, you say you know him and that you are sure he was in for the money. Is what you wrote fair on Kazamias? I know it does not cost anything to write in the internet anything that comes from the top of our head but I think we could all exercise more caution and responsibility, especially when we generalise. I hope we can agree on this.

[Damsi]

Piratis
I see your point but I was not grading the newspapers in terms of whether they were 'yes' or 'no' supporters of the Annan plan, only in terms of general journalism. I am aware that CM and Politis and Alithia were in the 'yes' camp but it does not automatically follow that any of them are funded by foreign powers by any stretch of the imagination.
For all I know Polits might be funded by foreign powers but I'm not going to accuse them without proof like half the people here do about the CM. All I know is Politis expose a lot of crap that goes on and that can't be a bad thing.
I also know very well that Alithia has a gripe of some sort against Pappy because they always harp on about the Milosevic money to the point of monotony but that still doesn't mean something wasn't amiss there. Truth hurts sometimes.
And so what if those three papers supported a 'yes'. Last time I checked we were still living in a democracy
Are other Greek Cypriots not entitled to their opinion? The majority spoke so why not the minority as well. That's what it's all about.
Be glad that the press here is still relatively free to speak its mind even if you don't like what some of them say and be glad that there are enough papers with differing viewpoints to "watch the watchers". Someone has to keep government in check because history has shown that if you don't you WILL get screwed.
Just because Pappy dissed the Annan plan as a pile of poo - and I'm not saying he was wrong - doesn't necessarily make him infallible. He sure knows how to pull the heart strings though. He even had me going during his pre-referendum speech. Nearly made me want to go out and print OXI on De Soto's forehead, which would have scuppered my chances of a date with him so I thought better of it.
Seriously though, the day you see all the newspapers playing 'follow the leader' is the day you should start to worry about whether or not you still live in a democracy.

[Bananiot]

Latching on to Cypezokyli's last thread, I should like to propose that Papadopoulos is basically giving substance to Michalis Dountas vision of the Cyprus issue. Do you remember Dountas? He proposed that this is not the time to try to solve the Cyprob and if we did make an effort, the result will be detrimental for us, due to the balance of power being strongly in favour of Turkey. He proposed that we should wait for as long as it takes, until there is a marked change in the balance of power and then dictate our rules.

If this is the case, then we have lost it, I am afraid. The international community is now convinced that it is our side that does not want a solution and are distancing themselves from us. Papadopoulos claimed triumphantly the other day (and soon his cronies jumped on the wagon) that nobody talks anymore about the Annan Plan. We should mourn for this, not celebrate. If no one is interested in the Annan Plan any more then they must have rested their case. "Let them have their partition, their second best solution, according to their president", they must have thought to themselves.

The notion that the EU is interested to solve our problem is also found to be wanting. The EU will never interfere into disputes that are ongoing between members just as it does not step in to help resolve the Gibraltar issue. But, what makes me lough sometimes is this. What insurance do we have the if the EU stepped in to act as a catalyst, it would propose a solution that will be best suited to our interests? There was a time when we all thought that once the UN stepped in, the solution would fall from the sky and would fit perfectly to our needs. There was a time when we begged the USA to undertake a solution, because we correctly thought that only them could exert pressure on Turkey to settle the issue in an acceptable way. We were disappointed by the course of action the USA took and now we look towards the EU as the bearer of the magic wand. We are in for another huge disappointment I believe and until we realise that only sharing of Cyprus within the framework of BBF, we would be caught out by events and we would add more and more people to our black list of enemies.

[Damsi]

Miltiades
Thx for the vote of confidence. I've been lurking here occasionaly. I just got tired of all the CM bashing when I know for a fact none of that foreign funding BS is true. The paper may be hard on Pappy and others and it may support the Annan plan, but it doesn't lie about the facts. If it did it would have closed down by now because so many people would have brought lawsuits against Patroclos for slander and defamation. The fact it's still going after 60 years speaks for itself.

[Piratis]

Piratis managed to find a common denominator and this has simplified things for him.

Why, you think that others are so stupid that can not see the common demominator of your "wise" politicians?

Are other Greek Cypriots not entitled to their opinion? The majority spoke so why not the minority as well. That's what it's all about.

Everybody is entitiled to his opinion. Nobody said the opposide. In this spirit my opinion is that CM is not supporting the Cypriot interests. Am I allowed to have an opinion also? Since we have democracy I suppose I do. So whats the problem?

[andri_cy]

Andry , I don't know much about most Cypriot politicians but I do know a a little about Mr.Klerides , and he most certainly did not fight as an RAF pilot during WWII , for financial reasons. He has served Cyprus for many years and was The man that all of Cyprus and the world looked upon to captain a stricken sinking ship in that summer of 1974. He was and still is a repected diplomat the world over.I ought to say that apart from distancing my self from parties with communist ideologies , I have no political affiliations or preferences what so ever

Miltiades, I know all that stuff about klerides. I also know the guy is too old and maybe he used to be a respected diplomat but now he is just an old guy. The truth is that we havent had any new blood at all lately. Unless you call 50-60 year olds new blood. We need new people leading us but the old ones wont step aside. I did not personally attack Klerides, I said all of them are bad. Anyway, you have your own opinion as you should and I have mine. I assume I have the right to not always agree with you and bananiot.

[andri_cy]

I really can't see why you are blowing your top. Anyway, perhaps you know that Kikis Kazamias was a Minister (and a successful one) who resigned after only one year in the hot seat, because he did not agree with Papadopoulos on the Annan Plan. Yet, you say you know him and that you are sure he was in for the money. Is what you wrote fair on Kazamias? I know it does not cost anything to write in the internet anything that comes from the top of our head but I think we could all exercise more caution and responsibility, especially when we generalise. I hope we can agree on this.

Maybe you are good at patronizing people so they can agree with you bananiot but it doesnt work with me. We have all these"serious and successful" people according to you but I see where that has got us. Whatever.

[andri_cy]

Piratis managed to find a common denominator and this has simplified things for him.

Why, you think that others are so stupid that can not see the common demominator of your "wise" politicians?

Are other Greek Cypriots not entitled to their opinion? The majority spoke so why not the minority as well. That's what it's all about.

Everybody is entitiled to his opinion. Nobody said the opposide. In this spirit my opinion is that CM is not supporting the Cypriot interests. Am I allowed to have an opinion also? Since we have democracy I suppose I do. So whats the problem?

I guess if you dont agree with Bananiot 100% then you have to be biased and stupid.

[Piratis]

which means wait for the USA to loose its number one position (if it happens and when it happens ) and hope that the new hegemon (if there is one and we dont have a new bipolar situation again ) is going to choose to support cyprus instead of turkey as an ally (and i do not see the reason why he should do) - or to go to the dream world , he will be a "benevolent" hegemon and he will pursue the fundamental human rights for all the people of the world equally.
just wait. it will happen one of these days. tuesday or wednesday dont leave the house , bc it might be the day , and we wouldnt want to miss it would we ?

Your "which means" is wrong. Nobody can predict the future, but it is a fact that the balance of power never remains the same.

Your pessimistic approach that the balance of power will always favor Turkey is totally incorrect, especially if you consider that Turkey is a very unstable country with several internal problems. Just remember that the Ottoman empire covered our whole area for many centuries. Balance of power changed - they lost the 9/10ths. How did this happen? The Greek peasants suddenly got so powerful and destroyed the Ottoman empire?
Cyprus will never be powerful due to her size. But the world balance of power will change.

Having international law on our side, and fair demands for human and democratic rights might not be enough for a good solution under the current balance of power, but they might prove very valuable under a different balance of power.

I never said that something will change tomorrow or in a month. The future is indeed uncertain and nobody can promise anything. Does this mean that we should now go and suicide instead of keep fighting for what is fair and just for all Cypriots?

[Damsi]

You are correct in your opinion that CM is "not supporting the Cypriot interests" in the sense that you mean the interests of those who voted ‘no’.
It was however supporting the interests of those Greek Cypriots who wanted to vote ‘yes’ and to give them a voice.
That does NOT mean the paper was deliberately supporting foreign powers, which is what has been suggested here time and again. There is a difference. That is what my problem was.