Cyprus-Forum.com

[michalis5354]

If you look at the names of the staff of Cyprus mail you will see why they do not support Cyprus. Because most of them are foreigners. If a Cypriot was issuing a newspaper in the UK wouldn't he support Cyprus instead of UK?Of course a name like UK Mail of Cyprus would be more appropriate for them but anyways

This is irrelevant Sotos . One can see the arguments of the articles written and not their nationalities. Not Locals may give a different point of view that the locals fail to perceive . Is that so bad?

As Admin said in one of his previous messages attack arrguments not people.!

[Piratis]

i am afraid that with a name like that : Sarah Fenwick , you are going to have problems in cyprus. why dont you consider changing into sth more greek ? its logical

OK cypezokyli, so according to your logic, if Cyprus has conflicting interests with Germany (in the way that Cyprus has with the UK), we should assume that you will support the interests of Germany simply because you live there now?

Would your position change depending on where you are located? If tomorrow you move to Israel to work, would that mean you will automatically love Israel and care for Israels interests in the way that the Israelis do?

[reportfromcyprus]

Thanks again for your encouragement. I'm in the process of changing the layout, and I will definitely stick with it. I haven't had so much fun in years with a project

[Sotos]

My god, this regression to sheer racism is killing me. Sotos says in all earnesty that just because some names sound foreign then CM must be unsupportive of Cyprus. This xenophobic attitude is what we inherited from the politicians of the 60's and it appears is here to stay with us for a long time yet. Meanwhile, everybody else is moving forward.

You calling me a racist and xenophobic is a joke. I am not. CM can write what they want and get paid from anybody they want. It is not illegal and they have the right to do it. And I have the right to make my own mind about them without being harassed by people like you. Those people write in a way that shows that they don't care about Cyprus. Why they do that is anybodies guess and it doesn't matter anyways.

[miltiades]

Bananiot , I look forward to your posts and I do find them intellectualy stimulating that is not to say that we are in total agreement all the time but when it comes to the Cyprus issue I think we share the same platform. You stated in your last post , and I quote " I voted for the solution of the Cyprus problem" With all due respect I think what you meant to say was you voted yes to the Annan plan , not necessarily YES to a likely or not , according to the majority , solution.I stated much earlier that I considered this plan not worthy of my yes vote and I stated my main reasons the extension of rights afforderd to Turkey ie. control of Sea , Air space and the right to intervene in any part of Cyprus. I think in time History will judge that the majority who voted No were not as some commentators suggested opposed to a United Cyprus.I think my views are known , to reiterate, I consider Cyprus to be the legitimate home for the Greeks as well as the Turkish Cypriots , living in a democracy enjoying equal human rights without hindrance or political influences detrimental to either their ethnicity or religion.
As far the comment I made earlier regarding "culturerism " the answer to whether English culture or Cypriot culture assimilate , of course the do. Starting from the very top of the utmost values in any culture both races respect the individual's freedom of speech , freedom of political preferences , religious freedom to believe or not , our common respect of sanctity of life , our mutual revulsion at the consumption of cats , dogs , live monkeys etc.
Above all we must not make the mistake that the UK is now accepting , that of denigrating our European culture in order not to offend . Our culture is that of Europe , that of the Western world and such it should remain.

[Bananiot]

Miltiades, I also look forward to reading your posts. It is only natural that we should disagree on certain issues and agree on others. What is not natural is to condemn people for their point of view with which you might disagree. Of course, you have been a very considerate and correct user of the forum and you have been expresing your views in a wise and moderate manner.

From your previous post I site the following passage:

I stated much earlier that I considered this plan not worthy of my yes vote and I stated my main reasons the extension of rights afforded to Turkey ie. control of Sea , Air space and the right to intervene in any part of Cyprus.

Are you sure of the above? Can you elaborate?

Regarding the way I worded my last post, you are right to point out that by referring to my yes to the solution I meant yes to the Annan Plan. I did this on purpose because I believed then and I believe now that we do not have many options. It is either the Plan or no solution and thus partition. The plan was never perfect, in fact Plan 3 was much better but papadopoulos, through his "negotiations" gave us Plan 5. Despite not being a perfect Plan, I and many of the people that decided to vote for it, thought that within the European Union and in general, within an environment of trust and security, this Plan could have evolved in time to something more workable and thus acceptable to an increasing number of people.

[Piratis]

Regarding the way I worded my last post, you are right to point out that by referring to my yes to the solution I meant yes to the Annan Plan.

As I wrote in another post:

Many times the "solution" of the Cyprus problem is regarded to be some kind of agreement that would change the current status in Cyprus into another status with the signatures of the two sides.
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus5806.html

So if we define "solution" in this way, then yes, disguised partition (Annan plan) was a "solution" proposal, that fortunately it has been rejected.
A true solution (not just forcing the GC side to capitulate) would mean solving the problems we have in Cyprus. Some of the most important problems are the human and democratic rights violations and the illegally forced partition of our island. If we don't solve these two major problems then what would a "solution" solve? The EU accession problems of Turkey?

Despite not being a perfect Plan, I and many of the people that decided to vote for it, thought that within the European Union and in general, within an environment of trust and security, this Plan could have evolved in time to something more workable and thus acceptable to an increasing number of people.

Oh not again! So we should have accepted and signed something unworkable, unacceptable, that violates our human and democratic rights hoping that some time in the future it would change?

Even proposing changes to the constidution is a crime according to some, isns't it Bananiot?
Even worst, the racist Annan plan didn't even create an environment that trust and security could be created. On the contrary it created two separate loosely associated states with conflicting interests.

The only way this plan could "evolve" is into 2 officially separate countries. After the Greek Cypriots would be tired of paying for the maintenance of the Turkish settlers, after our economy would go bankrupt, after everyone will realize that "united" is only in the name, after GCs will be tired of the racist discriminations against them and the non existence of democracy then GCs will have only 2 options: Ask for changes to the constidution, which the TCs will have no reason to accept and could lead to another 1963 OR ask for official partition.

It is obvious to anybody that values human and democratic rights and who cares about the well being of his children, that accepting the Annan plan would be much worst than the current status and would lead to a lot more problems than the few ones it would solve.

I remember Bananiot telling us after the referendum, that soon GCs will realize their "mistake" of voting no when they will see no better plan appearing. I remember telling him that most GCs didn't vote "no" because they expected a better plan to come soon, but because the Annan plan was worst even from the status quo.
Now I hope Bananiot realized that I was right since the polls clearly show that the support of people to Annan plan has not increased one bit, and the party which most supported this plan and insists on supporting it, will probably not even get a seat in the parliament this time.

[miltiades]

Bananiot on this one I have to agree with our friend Piratis , itis a tiring and repetitevely boring to go into the finer prints of the Annan plan . Piratis states that acceptance of the Annan plan would have meant that in the furure problems would arise. I believe one negative solution would eventualy lead to the same avenue that the 1959 -60
solution did.
At the end of the day the majority voted no.

[Alexander]

Hello folks. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cyprus Mail is American-funded, but does anyone know the specifics on this, which can be backed up with good sources?? (sources that one can testify on under oath) Feel free to pm me on this in case the truth is too sensitive for a forum.

Also, what other daily English online newspapers are there for Cyprus? I like to read the Cyprus Mail because each day there are some new editorials and factual stories on the Cyprus Problem, and the layout makes it easy for me to quickly scan the Problem-related stories and skip everything else. As I can't read Greek or Turkish, I'm restricted to English-language papers.

With all due respect to Sarah Fenwick and her site, http://www.reportfromcyprus.com/ , I'm particularly interested in papers that already have a sizable audience.

Its worse crime, and by god there are many, it appears to be populated by remedial educated Uncle Toms who have elevated malapropisms to a fine art. It does come in useful for wiping one’s bottom, when caught short in Troodos!

[cypezokyli]

Bananiot on this one I have to agree with our friend Piratis , itis a tiring and repetitevely boring to go into the finer prints of the Annan plan . Piratis states that acceptance of the Annan plan would have meant that in the furure problems would arise. I believe one negative solution would eventualy lead to the same avenue that the 1959 -60
solution did.
At the end of the day the majority voted no.

miltiades just think about our last "negative solution" of the 1960s. remember that one, we didnot like. the one that was "unjust" . the one that tpap rejected but today woke up and realised that that solution was good. the one we would dream or even beg to return to today. remember that one ?
did it fail bc the solution was bad ?
or , did it fail bc there was no will to make it work ?
and if it was that bad , how come and the majority of gcs wouldnt have a problem if somehow magically everything returned to the pre-1974 situation? why would we want to return to sth "bad " ?
or , why has our perception of the 1960 constitution changed from sth "unfair" in the 1960 , to a good place to return in the 2000s ?

or could it be the case that we realised that what failed was not sth written on a peace of paper , but the leaderships that were not willing to make it work ?

with the absence of political will, all plans will fail.
and the more i listen to talat and tpaps comments of each other , i dont believe that they will ever find a plan that satisfies them , bc whats missing is not a certain law , but the most important ingredient for a sustainable solution.....