Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Piratis is a good pupil of Papadopoulos. He subscribes to the ambient atmosphere theory which told him that anyone that voted "yes" must have got paid by the yanks. You see, we are not overtly worried about Turkey. This mosaic of a nation will collapse sooner or later. We need to save energy, to take on America next. Sorry about the cynicism but I have just about had it with people that you cannot debate seriously with because they are quick to jump to simplistic answers (of the type "you are a traitor" or you "support the interests of Turkey") as soon as they run short of political arguments. This mainly shows comlete lack of political culture and of course it is so reminescent of the 60's when Cyprus was just about hatching from the egg.

[miltiades]

Cypezokyli , may I ask if you have any regular interactions with Turkish Cypriots out in Germany?
As far as your epitaph on a comment purported to have originated from myself namely" want to benefit on our loss" as being a figment of my imagination , might not be the case that either it , the comment , was taken out of context or was never contributed by my self.I think that our views are on the whole similar and we should make further effot to come even closer by understanding , as Im certain that we both do , the need for a solution to the Cyprus problem.Yes I consider the support of Turkey by the US and Britain as purely strategic since history confirms that Turkey alligned it's self to those powers from which powers she could derive the utmost benefits , a lesson that Greece and Cyprus have still to learn. What are the common denominators that bind Turkey to the US or Britain ? Culture , religion , language , common historical heritage , strict adherence to human rights ? No !
ONLY FOR STRATEGIC REASONS . And such alliances do tend to , sooner or later , (Look at the Shah of Iran - Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Housein all supported by the west !!! ) wither away.

[Piratis]

Piratis is a good pupil of Papadopoulos. He subscribes to the ambient atmosphere theory which told him that anyone that voted "yes" must have got paid by the yanks. You see, we are not overtly worried about Turkey. This mosaic of a nation will collapse sooner or later. We need to save energy, to take on America next. Sorry about the cynicism but I have just about had it with people that you cannot debate seriously with because they are quick to jump to simplistic answers (of the type "you are a traitor" or you "support the interests of Turkey") as soon as they run short of political arguments. This mainly shows comlete lack of political culture and of course it is so reminescent of the 60's when Cyprus was just about hatching from the egg.

Bananiot, the only one in here who defines people based on what they voted in the referendum is you (e.g. wise politicians = the politicians that supported yes").

I have never divided Greek Cypriot people based on what they have voted. I simply judge the actions of some media or politicians.

However you like to artificially maintain this polarization between "yes" and "no" and this anti papadopoulos craze, hoping that in this way the people that voted "yes" will be fanatized and will not listen to the very reasonable arguments we express and for which you have no answers for.

For the record I have never voted Papadopoulos party. In fact I disagree with many of his internal affairs policies. As I said in the past, for me the best president so far in terms of internal affairs was Vasiliou. However when it comes to the Cyprus problem today, Papadopoulos is much better (not perfect of course) than his predecessors. This is a view shared by the majority of Cypriots for a good reason.

[cypezokyli]

miltiadis , firstly i am sorry . i never attributed to you the phrase " benefit on our loss" . piratis has the patent of it. i am sorry if it sounded that way

the most regular interaction ist through this forums.
but i have met with tc in germany and in cyprus.
but even if you donot have such a chance , just read the press. read the press of the people we liked when they were accusing denktash or when they are accusing talat. only this last week there were in phileleftheros and politis views of sener levent , hasan kafetjioglou , ibrahim aziz , nesie yasin , niazi kizilyurek , and also sevgul uludag. ( apologies for the mis-spealing of the names )

two of them lost their parents due to extreme nationalism , a number have received threads or even attacks , three of them leave permanently in the south. did you happen to read what they wrote ?
its people who have been so critical on denktash and today sometimes also on talat. but do we hear them when they critisize tpap ? do we care ?
for me , when i read those articles its like they are screaming towards our direction but we donot listen.

even if you take our small family in here. birkibrisli only a couple of days ago wrote :

.From where I sit I see NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER ON BEHALF OF THE GCS IN THIS DIRECTION

you havent been here that long to see how many times bir was attacked , from his "own" from supporting cypriotness. we all liked him then. shouldnt we pay attention when he expresses critisism towards our direction ?

i believe that with our current actions and rhetoric we are pushing the most pro-solution supporters from the tc community away. one day we will be searching for those cypriots among the tcs , and we will be surprised that they have given up on us long time ago

[miltiades]

Cypezokyli , I have read a number of your posts to form an opinion as to where you stand , and Im certain if you also read some of mine you will see that we share the same values and aspirations .Most of what I have read from TCs and GCs with the exeption of a small number , have given me hope that my family out in Cyprus and the family of every other of my compatriots have a better chance than I , and lots more of my generation have had to aspire to a brighter future free from fear uncertainty and insecurity, I believe all Cypriots aspire to these worthly ideals and share our vision of a free , peaceful Cyprus.
I , actualy , because of my work , have daily contacts with Turkish Cypriots living in the UK , and I can honestly say , hand on my hard , only came across the "malaka syndrome" once , this was a man who witnessed along with his sister , a terrible attrocity commited during the troubles , by an EOKA B paramilitary. Have known this man for over 30 years and despite all my efforts , he still hates GCs.

[Piratis]

i never attributed to you the phrase " benefit on our loss" . piratis has the patent of it.

This phrase goes for those that support a "solution" that will give gains to TCs on the loss of GCs.

For example how would you call the demand that a future TC state for the TC minority of 18% should be way larger than their percentage (e.g. 37% or 29%)?
Isn't this a gain of TCs on the loss of GCs?

Do you disagree that the majority of TCs expect such unfair gains on our loss? I really wish I am wrong on this, but I am afraid I am not.

i believe that with our current actions and rhetoric we are pushing the most pro-solution supporters from the tc community away. one day we will be searching for those cypriots among the tcs , and we will be surprised that they have given up on us long time ago

How is supporting human rights and democracy for all Cypriots be something that pushes away moderate people?

I wish there are some ways to help those TCs as much as possible. If there are such ways then I agree 100% with you that we should act in that direction immediately.

Were I disagree is if we reward the majority of TCs who do not share those moderate views. If a TC can support the ethnic cleansing, the foreign occupation, the "trnc", and all the other illegalities showing absolutely no respect to our human and democratic rights should he also be rewarded by RoC?

[miltiades]

Bananiot , Piratis , Cypezokyli , all of you are a living proof of a true Cypriot commited to peace for our beloved Cyprus. We of course dissagree on some issues but on the whole we all have the same destination in mind.
Goodnight from London .

[Piratis]

We of course dissagree on some issues but on the whole we all have the same destination in mind.

miltiades, some time ago I said that before we start discussing how we are going to solve the problem that we have to agree on what our aim is, the destination as you called it. When I posted this I was talking about Cypriots as a whole (GCs, TCs etc)

However it would be interesting to see if at least the GCs have the same destination in mind as you said.

Sometime ago Bananiot told us that if we had voted for the Annan plan we would gradually be able to transform it into something more acceptable and workable. (I of course disagree with that, since the Annan plan created a conflicting environment, and not the one that all those nice things could develop).

However I am really interested to know what Bananiot, cypezokyli etc would consider as the ideal "final destination" for Cyprus if we assume that there is a way to get there. I hope that we can at least agree on that!

[cypezokyli]

precisely..... if we assume that there is a way to get there

[cypezokyli]

Bananiot , Piratis , Cypezokyli , all of you are a living proof of a true Cypriot commited to peace for our beloved Cyprus. We of course dissagree on some issues but on the whole we all have the same destination in mind.
Goodnight from London .

i am not sure if we all have the same destinations in our minds or the way to achieve them.... not to mention we also have disagreed on numerous occations on war and peace

gutten morgen from germany