Cyprus-Forum.com

[stuballstu]

Kifeas wrote

Turkey can pay us the 7 billion and shift the remaining 1 to the T/C community, and let everybody go back to their original properties. After all, the present chaos in relation to properties is due to Turkey's invasion and occupation of the north, and the expulsion of the G/Cs from their properties in the north.

Kifeas i dont understand what you are saying by Turkey paying out 7 billion and giving 1 billion to the T/C community.

Just a couple of points to add

Who would be liable for the payments in the North, the "TRNC" government or Turkey?

Land values in the "north" are substantially less than that of the south. As the formula is based on "market values" Turkey's/TRNC's liabilites would be less per donum of land than that of the ROC. That is my understanding of it and i will stand corrected if i am wrong.

Also any money paid by Turkey/TRNC would not go to the ROC it would go to the refugees, the same in the ROC the money would go to the T/C refugee. The money has to come from the respective governments to pay the respective refugees their compensation. In an economy the size of the ROC's taking out CYP£1 Billion would have catastrophic consequences. Someone would have to pay this, them main question is who would pay at the end of the day? The tax payer.

Just another scenario to add. What if all the T/C's applied to the ROC for this and were paid there money without a political settlement? And G/C's done the same, however they were unable to re coup there compensation because the "TRNC" is an "illegal" state this could mean that the ROC pay out all the compensation without any G/C refugees receving any thing in return.

Perhaps and hopefully these thoughts may make the ROC and T/C leaders get together and at least start talking about a solution. Economically, there is now a larger than before need, to find a solution.

[stuballstu]

Strange how this thread has went dead. This could have a huge bearing on the economy of Cyprus if this where to happen. It seems as though some member would prefer to discuss/guess at how many Turkish Settlers and how many TC's were killed between 1963-1974 when none of these figures may ever be known.

As this has started to happen in ROC courts the people who live or visit in the ROC will have to foot this bill indirectly through the ROC Treasury. There is a good chance that this may become very real.

[Piratis]

If this becomes real then we will become richer by 7 billion. So why should we worry about it?

Or you think the courts will say: "RoC pay your 1 billion - Turkey don't pay your 8 billion"?

By the way, there is no "TRNC". All 8 billion are owned by Turkey herself.

[stuballstu]

Piratis

I think a lot of you are missing the point and how important this could be to the ROC.

Firstly these laws have been set up by the ROC and are valid in the ROC to deal with compensation claims by Turkish Cypriot refugees. Now the money to pay for this will have to come for the Treasury, have they got a spare £1 billion CYP?

At the moment the "TRNC" is setting up a way of dealing with property claims from refugees they at the moment have no mechanism to deal with such claims. However the ROC does and judgements in the ROC can be enforced although not in the "TRNC". Turkey does not have the mechanism in their laws to deal with it either so some sort of law would
have to be passed there to deal with it also which could take years. As longs as they are seen to be doing something then ECHR, EU, UN will only ask them to do go through this process in order that GC refugees have a way to claim compensation

Piratis wrote

If this becomes real then we will become richer by 7 billion. So why should we worry about it?

I'll come back to the maths part in a minute however you have to understand that the ROC itself does not become richer. The compensation is paid to refugees, they are the ones who become richer. The ROC governement still has to pay out £1 billion CYP in compensation and get nothing in return.

I think you and Kifeas, no offence intended, either need maths or reading lessons as you have misunderstood some of the content of the article which I am happy to clear up for you.


The quote from the article is as follows

*A Turkish Cypriot sues the government for building on his land. He sues first for loss of use, in the form of rental income at market value for decades, plus inflation, plus interest. He also sues for compensation for expropriation. Compensation for expropriation is normally paid at market value on the day of expropriation. No doubt interest on that compensation is payable afterwards.

*A Turkish Cypriot sues a Greek Cypriot who has built on his land that has not been expropriated. (According to our sources, more than 5,400 Greek Cypriot families have built houses on Turkish Cypriot land that was not expropriated.) The Greek Cypriot, who was encouraged to build on the land by the government, asks to be indemnified against the government. In other words, the government pays the damages. The damages, as above, come under two heads: rental income at market value since 1974, and compensation for the expropriation. Since expropriation has not yet happened, it will be valued at today’s market value, which will rise every year.

*A Turkish Cypriot refugee sues a Greek Cypriot refugee for trespass on his land (or other way round of course). Trespassing is a criminal offence, implying that the police will have to be involved.

*A Turkish Cypriot refugee charges the government a 6-month hotel bill because the government insists on six months of residency in the government-controlled areas before the Turkish Cypriot can get his property back.

*A Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot sues the government for not allowing him to register his sale (transfer of title) at the land registry. Currently the government will only allow sales of Greek Cypriot refugee property between members of the same family.

*A Greek Cypriot refugee sues a Turkish Cypriot refugee for trespass and using the principle in the Orams case, forces the sale of the Turkish’ Cypriot’s land in the south to pay his compensation.

The key thing that you miss out on is that the phrase "market value" this is extremely important here. The market value of the land, rental incomes etc in the ROC is far higher than that in the area above the Green Line. Just a quick look around estate agencies website, maybe Svetlana could give some ideas as what the average rental or sale price is for a 3 bed house on 3/4 of donum of land is and do a comparrison of what it is in the north. The market dictates that they are no where near the same so the avg compensation figure per donum of land in the North is no where near the same figures which would have been acheived in the ROC. This is an extremely key part to the formula of working out compensation.


Piratis wrote

By the way, there is no "TRNC". All 8 billion are owned by Turkey herself.

The court cases would not run simultaniously. Turkey, given the size of her economy, may be able to afford the compensation can the economy of the ROC afford to pay out £1 billion CYP?

Also kifeas has not answered my questions on how he has came to the figures he made in his earlier post. Would be good if he did as i would be intested to see how he came to the figures that he did.