Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis, in my book an extremist is someone that denies political equality to the Turkish Cypriot community.

So someone that believes in equality of people regardless of their race instead of the racist apartheid that you support is an extremist? Sorry, but it is exactly the opposite.

What you want is the system that they used to have in South Africa. Fortunately there they have finally adopted human rights, democracy and equality of all people regardless of their race. Anybody that is against these universally accepted principles is an extremist.

[Kifeas]

Michalis is more greek than all of you put together. He is just aware that the policies followed by Papadopoulos and his likes over the last 50 years have handed half of Cyprus to Turkey in a plate. Of course it is easier to blame the anglo-americans but history teaches us that these two countries have saved our ass on numerous occasions in the past.

Both GCG_uk and Michalis /Bananiot are the two opposite extreme ends of the G/C political /ideological spectrum in relation to the Cyprus problem. None of them is correct, as no extreme set of beliefs has ever been correct.

Is this the new trend in the GC society? To classify people who are promoting peace, unification and co-existence as extremists. Why are people who are not advocating hatered or violence considered extremists?

An extremist set of beliefs or approach doesn’t necessarily have to include violent and undemocratic means in their menu, to be regarded as such, nor are they always defined by the end goal they claim to pursue.

GCG_uk takes the extremist (and wrong) approach that holds the T/Cs to be the ultimate evil and the sole perpetrators of all that has happened and is now happening in Cyprus, sadistically over-exaggerating their negative role and completely ignoring or white washing any negative role the G/Cs have played. We are all unanimous on the fact that the above views are extremist ones.

On the other hand, Michalis and Bananiot take the completely opposite approach that holds the G/Cs to be the ultimate evil and the sole perpetrators of all that has happened and is now happening in Cyprus, masochistically over-exaggerating their negative role and completely ignoring or white washing any negative role the T/Cs have played. Why isn’t this an extremist approach, and the above is?

Both are equally pervasive (=extreme) approaches! The one subscribes fully and unquestionably to the Greek Cypriot most nationalist propaganda, the other subscribes fully and unquestionably to the Turkish Cypriot most nationalist propaganda.

[michalis5354]

On the other hand, Michalis and Bananiot take the completely opposite approach that holds the G/Cs to be the ultimate evil and the sole perpetrators of all that has happened and is now happening in Cyprus, masochistically over-exaggerating their negative role and completely ignoring or white washing any negative role the T/Cs have played. Why isn’t this an extremist approach, and the above is?

Both are equally pervasive (=extreme) approaches! The one subscribes fully and unquestionably to the Greek Cypriot most nationalist propaganda, the other subscribes fully and unquestionably to the Turkish Cypriot most nationalist propaganda.

No one has said that the GCs are Evils Kifeas get over this or tell me exactly where I posted such a claim and I will appologise. As I said earlier it is time for the truth to come to the surface from both sides. I am not represented by the policies of Papadopoulos ! What can I do other than Critising him?

Do we have freedom of speech yes or no?

Can I ask you also not to distort my arguments!

Yes we are all extremist apart from yourself Kifeas. If you follow such a tactic you will be alone in this forum!

[Kifeas]

Both GCG_uk and Michalis /Bananiot are the two opposite extreme ends of the G/C political /ideological spectrum in relation to the Cyprus problem. None of them is correct, as no extreme set of beliefs has ever been correct.

Is this the new trend in the GC society? To classify people who are promoting peace, unification and co-existence as extremists. Why are people who are not advocating hatered or violence considered extremists?

Alas if we are to assume and accept that the just about 1% of G/Cs sharing Bananiot’s extremist views, are the only ones promoting peace, unification and co-existence from the part of the G/C society! Thy god help us indeed!

[Sotos]

I think this is called polarization. When you oppose something extreme by going to the opposite extreme. But this is wrong. Extremists on both extremes should be opposed by moderate views.

[Bananiot]

Take the history of the Cyprob. If there is one extremist that stands out is Papadopoulos who has rejected every plan proposed by moderate people to solve our problem. In the begining as a close associate of Makarios, then as a Party leader (1% in Parliamentary elections of 1981) and now as the President of Cyprus. In 1999 he even rejected the Helsinki aggrements that paved the way for Cyprus to EU access.

In 1963, Piratis, we decided unilaterally to change the Constitution because we thought that being numerically superior to the Turkish Cypriot we should have the sole say as to where we wanted Cyprus to move to. In 2004 and until today we still deny the Turkish Cypriots equality of their community and Piratis thinks that equality will be a form of aparteid. He turns the world on its head and on top, he along with Kifeas, thinks he is moderate. Words have lost their meaning.

[Piratis]

Words have indeed lost their meaning in your case Bananiot.

In the whole world when you talk about equality of people, equality of races, equality for ethnic minorities etc, what they mean EVERYWHERE is that all individual people are equal to each other regardless of their race/religion/language etc.

Why don't they give to the GC minority in the UK a 50% power share? Why they don't give to the 20% Kurds of Turkey a 50% power share? Why don't they also give to the Armenian minority in Cyprus an "equal" power share? All other countries in the world function in the wrong way Bananiot? Is asking for Cyprus to be a normal democratic country were each citizen has equal rights something wrong?? Is asking for the respect of the human rights of all wrong?

[GreekCypriotGurl_UK]

Bananiot

Piratis, in my book an extremist is someone that denies political equality to the Turkish Cypriot community. Papadopoulos has always advocated that Turkish Cypriots are a minority and should remain a minority, with an exeption back in the 60's when he wanted the Turkish Cypriots exterminated

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turks where not deneid politcial equality for a minority they had a lot of rights in the early 1960s they had a turkish Cypriot vice preisdent fazil kucuk but they still made excuses Greek Cypriots insisted on revision of the constitution they had every right to choose what they wanted and the majority rule its like in every country in the world the majority rule with votes the turkish Cypriots where a minority but they still had a lot of equality as they had a turkish vice President the turkish Cypriots still wanted a partition plan

[Bananiot]

The above show total denial of historical circumstances that in every nation are important pointers towards the formulation of countries. In 1960 we agreed that the Republic of Cyprus would be bicommunal irrespective of numbers. We placed our signuture on an agreement and within three years we unilaterally decided that the agreement was no good and undemocratic. May be if we were big and powerful we could force our will but when you are small and weak you play with fire when you insticated a diversion from legality. We have paid a hefty price for our stupidity but still we do not learn. We have two options in front of us. Either we recognise the Turkish Cypriots as equal political partners in a new Cyprus where equality of the communities will be the corner stone and not mere equality of individuals or partition and forever loss of the northern part of Cyprus to Turkey. These are the two options and anyone can blow his head off with patriotic slogans but these do not help Cyprus. We have nothing to fear from our Turkish Cypriot compatriots, unless of course we are more interested in the loot of the resourses of Cyprus which we do not want to split with anyone else.

[Piratis]

These are the two options and anyone can blow his head off with patriotic slogans but these do not help Cyprus.

Human rights, equality of all citizens without racist discriminations and democracy are not "patriotic slogans" but things that no self respecting human being would be able to live without.

Personally I refuse to accept that I am a lower kind of human being because Turkey is big and powerful. I'd rather live in a divided island (until the balance of power changes) rather than be a citizen of an undemocratic country that violates my human rights and treat me as a second class citizen.

The resources as well as the power should be shared among all Cypriots equally. Not the 18% of TCs to be given 30% of resources and 50% of power. Thats unfair and undemocratic and will not be accepted. TCs of 18% should get the 18% of resources and the 18% of power. Your aim might be to be Bananiot of Cyprus Banana Republic, but my aim is for Cyprus to become a normal democratic country like all the rest.