Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

i cannot verify that hiyar. but if you say so...

welcome to the forum.

[Piratis]

Apparently TCs have refused that such a census be carried out by the UN as RoC had requested. Probably the Turkish occupation is trying to "Cypriotize" many of their settlers with this census.

[andri_cy]

Wow, I never got that Kyprios taxi thing.... I guess I disguised my accent good...

Otherwise it would have cost me 3x as much, cause the greek taxi drivers think we are stupid and cant figure out they are going around in circles LOL

[cypezokyli]

its not only they think we are stupid. they also think that we are all rich.
that is a concequence of the new fashion of neo-cypriots having a weekend in athens to spend hundreds of pounds in shoping and visiting a greek singer.
almost all greeks thing we are all rich. its amazing but they do!

[andri_cy]

lol i know. When we used to go to lunch at college I had this friend that always expected me to pay. Granted she was totally poor and I always did but that didnt mean I was rich.

[Issy1956]

Piratis,
I understand from the article below that observers have been invited so we hope that we will all get a good idea of who is living in the North. After all we would all like to know as well. Are the RoC sending observers. If not why not -I for one who like to make sure no one is pulling the wool over our eyes and cheating.
Another point to consider is the number of Pontians,Sri Lankans East europeans I see in the south-its obvious that you need a plentyful supply of cheap labour. So why not use the cheap labour from the north and send all the Sri Lankan and others home. Is it because Turkish guest workers are not welcome because they are TurkS?


LEFKOSA - Population census started in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) on Sunday.
A curfew was declared in the TRNC between 5.00 a.m. and 6.00 p.m.
Unofficial results of the census will be made public within 2-3 days. Official results are expected to be announced within six months.
Representatives of foreign missions in Cyprus are allowed to monitor the census under diplomatic rules.
Earlier, TRNC officials called on the United Nations Security Council, the European Commission and the Council of Europe to send observers.
The latest census was held in TRNC on December 15th, 1996. In the census, TRNC's population was announced as 200,587.

[sadik]

cypezokyli, from the figures that sotos posted above the Turkish Settlers were a big percentage even back in 1996. Is there any doubt that today there will be even more? 100.000 is possibly a very conservative number.

Unfortunately their census will not tell us exactly how many settlers are there since settlers are not counted separately in the way that we count foreign citizens in our census. In the same way that we couldn't tell exactly how many settlers were there with the 1996 we will not be able to tell now either. Obviously they are trying to hide their exact numbers and
the reason is obvious.

There are several types of Turkish citizens in Cyprus, and we need to understand what we mean by a settler in Cyprus. Because this will have an impact in a solution in Cyprus.

1- Turkish Citizens who were given the citizenship of the TRNC and who are voting the the elections with Turkish Cypriots.
2- Turkish military personnel, who do not vote, who are not citizens and who are always in their camps. We don't seed them around much.
3- Illegal workers (even by the TRNC standards) who are working in construction etc. They don't vote either and the come and go seasonally. Their number was reduced drastically in the last year by tightning the controls at ports.
4- Turkish students studying at the universities in the north. They are not considered citizens and they don't vote either.

So, from the above, we can see that only group of people that really matters with regard to a solution, is the group number 1. All the rest are temporary, they don't vote and hence don't have direct political impact.

By looking at the elections results, distribution of votes to parties, the fact that there are no Turkish settlers elected in the recent elections, their percentage in the current voting body of 150000 people should be around 20%, i.e, 30000 people. This will probably correspond to ~40000 in the whole population of about 200000. So this is about the number that we need to handle in a solution.

If you are also putting the groups 2,3 and 4 into the numbers, the results you will get will be deceiving, since this number will not have an impact in a solution plan. Besides we don't exactly know how many soldiers and illegal workers exist any way.

In the census, they are asking where each individual was born and where their parents were born and their citizenships. So it will be possible to get the exact numbers from this data, if they open it for analysis as they have promised.

[sadik]

the thing is how do you tell apart a turkish Cypriot from a turkish settler ? the turk illegal settlers and turk Cypriots speak the same language

How can you tell the difference between a Greek and a Greek Cypriot?

[Kifeas]

There are several types of Turkish citizens in Cyprus, and we need to understand what we mean by a settler in Cyprus. Because this will have an impact in a solution in Cyprus.

1- Turkish Citizens who were given the citizenship of the TRNC and who are voting the the elections with Turkish Cypriots.
2- Turkish military personnel, who do not vote, who are not citizens and who are always in their camps. We don't seed them around much.
3- Illegal workers (even by the TRNC standards) who are working in construction etc. They don't vote either and the come and go seasonally. Their number was reduced drastically in the last year by tightning the controls at ports.
4- Turkish students studying at the universities in the north. They are not considered citizens and they don't vote either.

So, from the above, we can see that only group of people that really matters with regard to a solution, is the group number 1. All the rest are temporary, they don't vote and hence don't have direct political impact.

By looking at the elections results, distribution of votes to parties, the fact that there are no Turkish settlers elected in the recent elections, their percentage in the current voting body of 150000 people should be around 20%, i.e, 30000 people. This will probably correspond to ~40000 in the whole population of about 200000. So this is about the number that we need to handle in a solution.
If you are also putting the groups 2,3 and 4 into the numbers, the results you will get will be deceiving, since this number will not have an impact in a solution plan. Besides we don't exactly know how many soldiers and illegal workers exist any way.

In the census, they are asking where each individual was born and where their parents were born and their citizenships. So it will be possible to get the exact numbers from this data, if they open it for analysis as they have promised.

Sadik, if we follow your approach, we reach to the conclusion that out of the 200,000 people with “TRNC” citizenship, about 160,000 are of pure T/C origin. (200,000 -40,000)

However, based on the G/C citizenship numbers (about 660,000 in 2003) and if we take the 82:18 ratio as the basis, and if we also assume the same growth rate (which in fact is,) and also that the migration rate of the two communities was identical since 1974, and not a much higher one among the T/C community as it was traditionally affirmed by the T/Cs themselves, then the maximum number of original T/C population currently in the north shouldn’t be more than 145,000 people.

If we are to accept the 160,000, as you suggested above, then we have to either assume that the T/C community had a positive migration rate all along (i.e. more T/Cs that emigrated in the past years before 1974 have returned back, instead of the other way around,) or that the population ratio of the two communities has never been an 82:18 one but a different one, or that the growth rate (births per pop.) among the T/C society is higher (contrary to what all the studies suggest to be almost identical.)

[sadik]

There are several types of Turkish citizens in Cyprus, and we need to understand what we mean by a settler in Cyprus. Because this will have an impact in a solution in Cyprus.

1- Turkish Citizens who were given the citizenship of the TRNC and who are voting the the elections with Turkish Cypriots.
2- Turkish military personnel, who do not vote, who are not citizens and who are always in their camps. We don't seed them around much.
3- Illegal workers (even by the TRNC standards) who are working in construction etc. They don't vote either and the come and go seasonally. Their number was reduced drastically in the last year by tightning the controls at ports.
4- Turkish students studying at the universities in the north. They are not considered citizens and they don't vote either.

So, from the above, we can see that only group of people that really matters with regard to a solution, is the group number 1. All the rest are temporary, they don't vote and hence don't have direct political impact.

By looking at the elections results, distribution of votes to parties, the fact that there are no Turkish settlers elected in the recent elections, their percentage in the current voting body of 150000 people should be around 20%, i.e, 30000 people. This will probably correspond to ~40000 in the whole population of about 200000. So this is about the number that we need to handle in a solution.
If you are also putting the groups 2,3 and 4 into the numbers, the results you will get will be deceiving, since this number will not have an impact in a solution plan. Besides we don't exactly know how many soldiers and illegal workers exist any way.

In the census, they are asking where each individual was born and where their parents were born and their citizenships. So it will be possible to get the exact numbers from this data, if they open it for analysis as they have promised.

Sadik, if we follow your approach, we reach to the conclusion that out of the 200,000 people with “TRNC” citizenship, about 160,000 are of pure T/C origin. (200,000 -40,000)

However, based on the G/C citizenship numbers (about 660,000 in 2003) and if we take the 82:18 ratio as the basis, and if we also assume the same growth rate (which in fact is,) and also that the migration rate of the two communities was identical since 1974, and not a much higher one among the T/C community as it was traditionally affirmed by the T/Cs themselves, then the maximum number of original T/C population currently in the north shouldn’t be more than 145,000 people.

If we are to accept the 160,000, as you suggested above, then we have to either assume that the T/C community had a positive migration rate all along (i.e. more T/Cs that emigrated in the past years before 1974 have returned back, instead of the other way around,) or that the population ratio of the two communities has never been an 82:18 one but a different one, or that the growth rate (births per pop.) among the T/C society is higher (contrary to what all the studies suggest to be almost identical.)

Hey, I'm in applied mathematics. We deal with interstellar distances. I'm lucky if my estimates are close to an order of 10.

My numbers are only estimates. It is only to show that there are no 100000 thousand settlers in Cyprus, if we are talking about the same thing. However, if you put the numbers of the settlers, Turkish military, seasonal workers and Turkish students maybe you can deduce such a number, but that number would be meaningless. What we need to talk about are the people who actually "settled" in Cyprus. This is the number that has an impact. The myth that the TC population has decrased is not correct.