Cyprus-Forum.com

[andri_cy]

No matter what the covert reasons for the invasion, the ostensible reason was to protect the TCs from further slaughter at the hands of the GCs.

Now I know that certain members of this forum have a "selective" view of history, but not being of GC or TC extraction I don't need to pretend that certain things did and didn't happen. During his coup, Nicos Sampson slaughtered GCs and TCs alike. Hundreds of both. .

i believe kifeas has given provided an excellent post on the wrong info of your post.
nevertheless one has to mention , that this person and his likes (sampson), when one considers their past , could have been potential danger for the tc community. especially if they were in a position to stay and enjoy the monopoly of power the goverment offers. the fact as kifeas has posted is that the coupists didnot attack the tc community.

but it is important to take into consideration how the tc community viewed at the time the coup. imo , the tc community had sound reasons to be afraid of the coupists , who as kifeas will agree , they were a bunch of fascist. ofcource their aims might have been different , but as these couldnot have been known to the tc community , they had every right to be afraid.

with that i dont try in any way to justify the invasion (especially the second phase and the continued occupation ) , but to add another point that imo is important in understanding the whole 74 situation

Everyone had reason to be afraid of the coupists including the GC's. The coupists were killing innocent University students in Greece. The TC's werent in any more danger than anyone who would oppose the Junta. That doesnt make the invasion right.

[cypezokyli]

i said , that i am not justifying the invasion.
i explicitly wrote that (even though i believe that i shouldnt )
imo , if we dont bother to view the cyppro from the tc point of view , we can never understand their actions , feelings responses. we dont have to agree , but it is nevertheless important.

[andri_cy]

I do not disagree with you. I am just saying that in those days, everyone was afraid not just one side. My uncle died in Greece where he was studying. My family in general was terrified-and we are GC's. We do have to see of course the events from the TC point of view as long as we also remember to see it from ours.

[kalahari]

Cause and effect:

Kissinger wished to see the communist Greek Colonels removed from power to free NATO of their threat. How to do this? He had to galvanise the Greek people into revolt. So he needed something that would so outrage the Greek people that they would overthrow the Colonels. What would do that?How about a Turkish invasion. But to get the Turks to invade Greece would also jeopardise NATO from the inside. And the Turks wouldn't do it anyway without an excellent reason. That reason was provided by Cyprus.

A history of squabbling gave him the perfect tinder box to light the fire. But he had to be subtle. It had to look as if the Greeks had started it. So he persuaded them to start a coup, with the known trouble maker sampson at it s head. The Turks had every reason to fear for the safety of Turkish Cypriots and, spurred on by Kissinger, they invaded. The UK did not step in because Kissinger told them to refrain from doing so.

So now Kissinger is pulling the strings of all three countries' governments – but it is the people of Cyprus who will pay for it.

The Turks invade, the military junta is overthrown within days. But the Cypriots fight back, Turkey are shocked to find that the invasion was not the walkover it should have been. Nixon is impeached. Kissinger, now with a new master and bigger fish to fry, has achieved his objective in Greece and abandons the Cyprus scenario completely. Turkey panics and now without the support of Kissinger throws in a second, far more professional, invasionary force. Denktash, seeing his opportunity, claims the throne and enforces the exile of thousands of Cypriots from both communities in both directions.

For me, the real culprit in all of this is Henry Kissinger. Then comes the malleability of the Greek, Turkish and UK governments of the time. Finally, the situation was cast in stone for over thirty years by the self-seeking actions of Rauf Denktash.

The innocent parties in all of this disgusting power play were the peoples of Cyprus – both north and south of the border.

Now this, the above, is all my opinion which has been formed by reading. It might well be wrong, and I am willing to be shown that I am wrong.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the Turkish invasion was not the best thing for the Turkish Cypriots either – and it could well be that they are aware of this. Educate me!

[Kifeas]

Cause and effect:

Kissinger wished to see the communist Greek Colonels removed from power to free NATO of their threat. How to do this? He had to galvanise the Greek people into revolt. So he needed something that would so outrage the Greek people that they would overthrow the Colonels. What would do that?How about a Turkish invasion. But to get the Turks to invade Greece would also jeopardise NATO from the inside. And the Turks wouldn't do it anyway without an excellent reason. That reason was provided by Cyprus.

A history of squabbling gave him the perfect tinder box to light the fire. But he had to be subtle. It had to look as if the Greeks had started it. So he persuaded them to start a coup, with the known trouble maker sampson at it s head. The Turks had every reason to fear for the safety of Turkish Cypriots and, spurred on by Kissinger, they invaded. The UK did not step in because Kissinger told them to refrain from doing so.

So now Kissinger is pulling the strings of all three countries' governments – but it is the people of Cyprus who will pay for it.

The Turks invade, the military junta is overthrown within days. But the Cypriots fight back, Turkey are shocked to find that the invasion was not the walkover it should have been. Nixon is impeached. Kissinger, now with a new master and bigger fish to fry, has achieved his objective in Greece and abandons the Cyprus scenario completely. Turkey panics and now without the support of Kissinger throws in a second, far more professional, invasionary force. Denktash, seeing his opportunity, claims the throne and enforces the exile of thousands of Cypriots from both communities in both directions.

For me, the real culprit in all of this is Henry Kissinger. Then comes the malleability of the Greek, Turkish and UK governments of the time. Finally, the situation was cast in stone for over thirty years by the self-seeking actions of Rauf Denktash.

The innocent parties in all of this disgusting power play were the peoples of Cyprus – both north and south of the border.

Now this, the above, is all my opinion which has been formed by reading. It might well be wrong, and I am willing to be shown that I am wrong.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the Turkish invasion was not the best thing for the Turkish Cypriots either – and it could well be that they are aware of this. Educate me!

You are not far from the truth with all the above. Kissinger did play a major role along the above lines you have just described. It is only because certain things are difficult to be proved, especially when one deals with the practices of secret services and secret diplomacy, but all indications more or less point to what you have said.

[cypezokyli]

Cause and effect:

Kissinger wished to see the communist Greek Colonels removed!!! from power to free NATO of their threat!!!. How to do this? .......

You are not far from the truth with all the above. Kissinger did play a major role along the above lines you have just described. It is only because certain things are difficult to be proved, especially when one deals with the practices of secret services and secret diplomacy, but all indications more or less point to what you have said.

kal, i am sorry, but if there was one thing that these colonels were not ...believe me that was : communists. they oppressed the greek communist party , and generally everyone on the "left" . their symbol was :"fatherland , religion , family " . the colonels were extreme right oriented , and its one of those countries that the US supported dictatorships , in order to avoid the communist danger. even clinton apologised to the greek people for the US involvement.

even further the above doesnot makes sense bc :
the CIA cooperated just fine with the greek junta.
had the junta been a communist one , and considering makarios being "the castro of mediterannean" the USSR would be running to our help.
greece lied in the western sphear of influence and received millions of dollars under the truman plan to exterminate any communist thread

in short , i dont disagree that kissinger played a significant role . BUT the motive being : overthrowing a communist regime is absurd

[Kifeas]

Cause and effect:

Kissinger wished to see the communist Greek Colonels removed!!! from power to free NATO of their threat!!!. How to do this? .......

You are not far from the truth with all the above. Kissinger did play a major role along the above lines you have just described. It is only because certain things are difficult to be proved, especially when one deals with the practices of secret services and secret diplomacy, but all indications more or less point to what you have said.

kal, i am sorry, but if there was one thing that these colonels were not ...believe me that was : communists. they oppressed the greek communist party , and generally everyone on the "left" . their symbol was :"fatherland , religion , family " . the colonels were extreme right oriented , and its one of those countries that the US supported dictatorships , in order to avoid the communist danger. even clinton apologised to the greek people for the US involvement.

even further the above doesnot makes sense bc :
the CIA cooperated just fine with the greek junta.
had the junta been a communist one , and considering makarios being "the castro of mediterannean" the USSR would be running to our help.
greece lied in the western sphear of influence and received millions of dollars under the truman plan to exterminate any communist thread

in short , i dont disagree that kissinger played a significant role . BUT the motive being : overthrowing a communist regime is absurd

I completely missed the "communist colonels" above! No, absolutely not! The colonels were not communists, but in fact they came in power claiming and citing the communist thread in Greece. They came to “suppress” the danger of “rising” communism, as they alleged, even though such a "danger" never existed really! The junta colonels were extreme-right wing pro-fascist elements within the Greek army, and in fact their maintenance in power during those 7 years was only possible due to the secret backing they were receiving from the US and the CIA.

[cypezokyli]

i was sure you missed it kifeas

[sadik]

No matter what the covert reasons for the invasion, the ostensible reason was to protect the TCs from further slaughter at the hands of the GCs.

Now I know that certain members of this forum have a "selective" view of history, but not being of GC or TC extraction I don't need to pretend that certain things did and didn't happen. During his coup, Nicos Sampson slaughtered GCs and TCs alike. Hundreds of both. .

i believe kifeas has given provided an excellent post on the wrong info of your post.
nevertheless one has to mention , that this person and his likes (sampson), when one considers their past , could have been potential danger for the tc community. especially if they were in a position to stay and enjoy the monopoly of power the goverment offers. the fact as kifeas has posted is that the coupists didnot attack the tc community.

As a matter of fact, after the coup Denktas had stated that it was Greek Cypriots internal business and Turkish Cypriots were not involved in the fighting between the sides. I don't think the coup would present a bigger threat to Turkish Cypriots in the short run, as the TCs were already armed and there was an understanding between the sides that Turkey would intervene (by airstrikes) if the enclaves were to be run over.

[kalahari]

kal, i am sorry, but if there was one thing that these colonels were not ...believe me that was : communists.

The colonels were not communists, but in fact they came in power claiming and citing the communist threat in Greece. They came to “suppress” the danger of “rising” communism, as they alleged, even though such a "danger" never existed really! The junta colonels were extreme-right wing pro-fascist elements within the Greek army, and in fact their maintenance in power during those 7 years was only possible due to the secret backing they were receiving from the US and the CIA.

Okay, my understanding of the situation is improving all the time. So Kissinger, having backed the colonels for many years, suddenly decided they had to be removed, and switched his alleigiance to Turkey in order to have them deposed. Any suggestions as to why? What had they done to upset him?