Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

I have been reading most of the post by Piratis for the last month or so, specially regarding the "Cyprus problem", and most of the time, he defends the actions taken by the Greeks against his fellow citizens ( Turks ), because of what had happend 400 years ago. Well, no wonder there won't be any settlement on the Island and will remain divided way beyond our life time. If grudges can be kept for that long for the claimed deaths of 20,000 in Nicosia back in 1571, then I expect, it will take another 130 years from 1974 for the deaths of claimed 6,000 lives. I have no idea how long the Turks grudges will last for the deaths they have suffered in the hands from their trusted fellow citizens (Greeks ).

Piratis likes to point out that the whole problem was just a " intercommunual disagreements" and it should be left to them to work it out. So then, why was it not worked out between 1963 to 1974 when the majority could have made "wrongs done" corrected. It actually goes back to 1960, when the ink wasn't dry yet on the signed agreements between the parties to make Cyprus an independent country, when the plans were being formed to slowly but surely do away with the minority citizens. Not necessarily kill them all, but exile most, otherwise I would not be here to write this, since I was one of the 700 citizens taken at gun point in Nicosia ( Kücük Kaymakli ) to a detention center at some University building and kept there for a week in 1963 at age 8 years old. We were lucky to be captured by Greek soldiers that chose not to do us harm to about 30 people hiding in one room. Not so lucky were the family not far from us who were gunned down in their bath tub.
Perhaps had ( Turks ) they known the grudges of 1571 were still alive and well, they would have not fallen victims to their fellow citizens ( Greeks ). We can all scratch our heads for solutions and what ifs, but too much blood have been spilt over dirt and national pride. Lets hope future generations do not follow Piratis & company's foot steps.

[Piratis]

Kipapu, the Cyprus problem TODAY is that Turkey, a foreign country, is illegally occupying part of the independent and sovereign Republic of Cyprus.

When Turkey is asked to end her illegalities and human rights violations it does what you did: selectively choose a tiny part of history that suits her to excuse the crimes she continues to commit as we speak.

When this happens then yes, I remind them, that the Turks have committed 100 times more crimes, they have oppressed Greek Cypriots for hugely more time, they are the ones that started this conflict, and they are the ones that insist on the conflict today. All these are historical facts.

What I would prefer: To leave the past behind, forgive each other and finally have in Cyprus democracy and human rights without racist discriminations. When you are willing to do this too, then we will be finally able to leave the past behind and move ahead for a better Cyprus based on universally accepted principles.

But as long as people like you are trying to excuse crimes committed today by selectively choosing the tiny parts of history that suits you, then yes I will remind you the rest of history as well.

So when I talk about the Turkish crimes in Cyprus that started even before 1571 and continue until today, I don't do it to excuse the much fewer crimes of Greek Cypriots (on the contrary I always condemn them), but to make you understand that Turks can not demand the punishment of Greek Cypriots with the violations of their human rights and the stealing of their land, since the Turks have committed much more crimes. If GCsdeserve to be punished once, Turks should be punished 100 times, not to be rewarded on our expense.

So, can we leave the past behind and agree that we should move ahead with human rights and democracy for all? Or you will insist on doing propaganda with a tiny selectively chosen part of history to excuse the crimes that Turkey commits today?

(P.S I am not stuck in 1571. I could start from 7000BC if you want, or I could start from 1980 or 1990. What I will not do is what you do: remember only the parts that suit you from 1963-1974 and forget the whole history before that and the whole history after that (and the history that you don't like during 63-74, e.g. TMT and the partition plans). If we are going to talk about history then whats your problem if we talk about all of it and not only the tiny parts that serve your propaganda?)

[Kikapu]

Piratis,
Once again you dive back to the past. I'm very happy to see one Cyprus for all to live in. The facts are, Turkey is not in Cyprus because of what happened before 1960, rather what has happened since. You're a smart guy and must know that conflicts that result in"occupation" does not get resolved that easy. It's hard enough when civil wars happens to people that once liked each other ( American Civil War ) that even today after so many years there're underlying bad feelings betwen some of the people in the Southern States and the rest of USA but they kept it together for the country to move forward. Take the Israel and the Palestinians, which is a "true occupation". Pakistan and India over Kashmire, after their deadly strife. Can't wait to see how much worse it will get in Iraq !!. I'm happy that Turkey did not take the whole Island, since that would have made the lives of the Greeks much worse than it is now. I know that is no consolation to all those who have been affected . I was affected by the problems of 1963 that caused me to be away from Cyprus for the last 42 years .So a civil war between the Turks and the Greeks with their history as you correctly pointed out, I can't see how they can live under "one roof" again, not unless they are willing to forget and forgive.
It will take many more years before the green line is erased, but what you will find is two seperate groups living side by side with an invisible border that will always be there. These are not my wishes, but the trust is lost from this generation from both sides, and it will only get worse by brain washing the future ones.
It will serve all of us much better if we narrow the present conflict from 1960 to present time, because this is real time that we have all lived through , and many died. It really doesn't serve any purpose to go back beyond that.

[Piratis]

Once again you dive back to the past.

Your whole post was about the past!! But you only want to see the past that suit you and excuse the crimes and illegalities against us TODAY. Can you stop the lame excuses please? The Turks have committed 100 times more crimes against Greek Cypriots and you are still looking for excuses to commit even more?

It will serve all of us much better if we narrow the present conflict from 1960 to present time

Even if we start from 1960 and we leave out the period when the Turks started the conflict in Cyprus, still the casualties of GCs are way more than those of TCs. So whats your point?

[growuptcs]

kikapu, are you new to this forum, or have you changed your name to a new a.k.a.(also known as)
Barking at Pirates like the rest of the Turks or English profiters, start talking about a solution that respects human rights or go to another forum. Turkey, are the world champions at discriminating against the nationalities that they already oppressed and still to this day try to keep it consistent. Wealthy people dont even act the way that Turkey does if something doesn't suit them. It's pathetic to hear the Turkish civilians talk the way Turkeys politicians do. A superpower like Turkey should of solved the Cyprus problem years ago, but if they planned on keeping what they stole from innocent Greeks in Cyprus, this is why there is still no solution to the problem. Turkey is still waiting for some kind of miracle to breakthrough so they can keep N.Cyprus, but we all know thats never going to happen, so they just insist on being thickheaded. I wish they just grow up, but that only my opinion, what do I know? Maybe, they're just waiting for aliens to come down from outerspace and go by their logic to complete the Cyprus problem. I think ALF has more common sense, to this problem.

[Kikapu]

Pirates,
Just because more Greeks died by the Turks does not make them more right. Unwarranted instigation of trouble makers deserve to suffer more in every aspect of their cause. It's too bad that innocent people end up suffering more, long after the guilty had gone.
I was justed to bring your attention to other civil war conflicts of the past, around the world, that the end results usually end up people ending up living seperately, but remain somewhat friendly. I thought the Annan Plan would have created the first step towards that, even though not perfect, would have been better than todays situation. Once again the Greeks gambled for a larger piece of the pie. When something is badly broken, it's better to start putting the pieces back together one by one than the all or nothing attitude. With a unified Cyprus, it would have been a matter of time before the Turkish army withdrawn her forces off the Island. Political solutions will overcome military ones, as long as the civilians are in charge of the military.

[Kikapu]

growuptcs,
I am new to the forum and no, I'm not a A.K.A. I was under the imression that this was a forum to discuss the Cyprus Problem.We can have a solutions to 46 year old problem if the Cypriots are willing to make compromises. Not everyone is going to be happy, but then again who ever is. Mistakes were made, and some mistakes can not be ever made right again to ones satisfaction. How far are the Greeks willing to go, since they are the majority, to make their minority cousins feel safe and secure and equal. I don't believe anyone is going to forget what was done to them, but there's a chance to forgive. I'll tell you where I'll start to heal the problems that face the Cypriots. Establish two seperate zones. One for the Greeks and one for the Turks. Then introduce inter marriages between Greeks and Turks, to which, eventually Cyprus will become one people and one nation. Cypriots probably have closer bloodline to each other than they would like to admit. I haven't meet a Greek person that I have not liked yet, so whats the problem. If all of you out there can imagine your daughters and sisters can become the wives of the other "side", then there's hope yet, and if not, your hatred to the other "side" will never be resolved.

[Bananiot]

Kikapu makes a lot of sense to me and obviously he is a moderate Turkish Cypriot despite living through the bicommunal strife as a child. I think we should be looking to build bridges with such persons and not behave towards them as though they are our perpetual enemies.

[Main_Source]

pro-occupation Bananiot talking his shit again.

[Bananiot]

Very easily I could tell you that it is you who is pro occupation together with all Greek Cypriots who ask for maximalist gains and thus cement partition and division of our country for ever. I have my conscience clear. I did not vote for Turkey to stay in Cyprus in April 2004.