Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

some voted no, bc they were gotten by surprise that a plan proposed a power sharing model (a powering sharing model that existed since 1960)

So what you are saying is that the power sharing model of Annan plan was the same as the one that existed in 1960?? Sorry but this is not the case. The 18% of TC minority was given 50% power. This is something that is obviously undemocratic and exists in not other country in the whole world.

The Annan plan was rejected because it was unfair.

In 1960 we came to a compromise. However now GCs are asked to make further compromises from 1960 agreements and TCs demand to take more than 1960 agreements on the expense of GCs.

A fair solution is either 1) The compromise of 1960 or a new compromise were both communities will make compromisses in relation to the 1960 agreements.

As long as they expect GCs to capitulate and accept an agreement that is worst for them than the 1960 agreements while it is better for TCs a solution will not be found.

Here are some reason why people voted "yes" (why talk only about the reasons of "no"?):

1) For personal reasons.
2) Because they thought the Annan plan solution could be changed later on with the help of EU.
3) Because they have been told to do so by their parties
4) Because they were threatened. The Americans even said that "a million bricks will fall on GCs if they dare to vote "no"
5) Because they were misled to believe that Annan plan was about unification, and not about legalization of partition.

[kalahari]

re cypezokyli, above

Hear, hear!

[cypezokyli]

some voted no, bc they were gotten by surprise that a plan proposed a power sharing model (a powering sharing model that existed since 1960)

So what you are saying is that the power sharing model of Annan plan was the same as the one that existed in 1960?? Sorry but this is not the case. The 18% of TC minority was given 50% power. This is something that is obviously undemocratic and exists in not other country in the whole world.

.

No i never said what you think as i said.....as usual
i didnot refer to the fairness of the power sharing model
i refered to the fact that they were gotten by surprise.

The Annan plan was rejected because it was unfair.

i also proposed this possiblity and i said : people thought it was unfair.
u present a certainty , on both what the plan was and how the people thought about it....
i like the way that peoplemake personal beliefs into "laws".

In 1960 we came to a compromise. However now GCs are asked to make further compromises from 1960 agreements and TCs demand to take more than 1960 agreements on the expense of GCs.

A fair solution is either 1) The compromise of 1960 or a new compromise were both communities will make compromisses in relation to the 1960 agreements.

we ve been through that a thousand times, and usually what i say will be exagurated. if you thing you can achieve return to the 1960 situation with no further compromises , you have my full support.... you always skip the part : HOW ?

Here are some reason why people voted "yes" (why talk only about the reasons of "no"?):

1) For personal reasons.
2) Because they thought the Annan plan solution could be changed later on with the help of EU.
3) Because they have been told to do so by their parties
4) Because they were threatened. The Americans even said that "a million bricks will fall on GCs if they dare to vote "no"
5) Because they were misled to believe that Annan plan was about unification, and not about legalization of partition

5.5...from the plethora of american paid media that were in favor of AP...
including, tv channels, radio stations and all but three newspapers...

6 bc for one plan to come it took 30 years. and if it takes another 30 for a second to come we know what the proposal will be dont we ?
7 bc the tendency is , every last plan was better, everyone to come will be worse.
8 bc they believe that time is not working in favor of us

..........
if i may add another reason for the NO :

bc people thought that there will be another plan
.....................

an ex-akel members wrote the other day in a politis ( i ll find the article later on) concerning the usual demand from some patriot politicians that yes supporters should apologise to the rest of the population (from the people who believe that they originate from the country where democracy was born ... )
he said:" i have no problem apolising, and i will apologise only if you bring me a plan that is better. in the meantime what i see is not even a better plan, but no-plan. but believe me i will more than happy to apologise....when...."

valid argument wouldnt you say ?

[andri_cy]

NOTE: I am trying my hardest to get my head around this issue, and openly admit I do not have all the facts. Please do not shout at me if I have said something really dumb!

I dont think anyone is going to yell at you but good luck with getting your head around all this. I grew up in Cyprus I am 28 and still am confused and dazed sometimes about it.

[GreekCypriotGurl_UK]

Malaka Wrote

PLEASE EVERYONE EXPRESS YOUR OPINION ON THIS

Turks & Greeks have been enemies since the beginning of time.
Turks & Greeks will remain enemies.
The only solution for the Cyprus problem is for GC to take back what belongs to them by force.

I AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS

malaka i agree turks and greeks are enemys even through some greeks are in denial about this history is history.

I agree the only solution is to take back what is ours the problem is how do we go about it Turkey has a population of 70 million people and they have a strong military unless we got military help from some superpower country that is the only solution i can think of what was taking with force should be taken back with force

[cypezokyli]

Malaka Wrote

PLEASE EVERYONE EXPRESS YOUR OPINION ON THIS

Turks & Greeks have been enemies since the beginning of time.
Turks & Greeks will remain enemies.
The only solution for the Cyprus problem is for GC to take back what belongs to them by force.

I AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS

malaka i agree turks and greeks are enemys even through some greeks are in denial about this history is history.

I agree the only solution is to take back what is ours the problem is how do we go about it Turkey has a population of 70 million people and they have a strong military unless we got military help from some superpower country that is the only solution i can think of what was taking with force should be taken back with force

"history is history"
what tells you that greeks and turks , or greekscypriots and turkishcypriots did not live harmoniously together ?
ofcource the ottoman state , was repressing
BUT , there are two important things to remember
1. in comparison with other empires the ottoman empire was quite progressive. they wanted taxes , and could get aggresive when they didnot receive them. the big problems started after nationalism showed its phase , mostly to satisfy specific elites , and then ofcource the ottoman state got more aggresive
2. never forget that not the whole turks where part of the ottoman "state". make as effort to read our cypriot national poet and you might realise that. its not only the patriotic part that kyprianos said to the "state" ...sfaxe meas oullous tji as genei.... there is also kioroglou , who offered to save kyrpianos life (kioroglou existed btw , and his house still stands in nicosia ) .
thats a way of thinking that we still have till today : we confuse the politicians or what they say to draw conclusions that two people cannot live peacefully together as neighbours.

as for "history is history". if you ever actually bothered with history the first think you realise is that there is no history out there - there are histories. in a history book you dont read history you read historians. it is the opinion of the person who wrote it , nothing more nothing less.
..............
if you think that force is the only solution , what is the point of participating in this forums actually ?
what do you think the purpose of this forums actually are ?

[michalis5354]

it is the opinion of the person who wrote it , nothing more nothing less.

Very true! Just only one perspective of things and from one angle!

Unless you experience things byyourslef you dont know the full truth!

[michalis5354]

Well done Cypezokyli I hope GC girl get something out of it!

[kalahari]

It is the opinion of the person who wrote it , nothing more nothing less.

I quite agree. Which is why I also think it is wrong to live in the past. And while it can be tough to wake up every morning and think, "Thirty two years of no change, will today be any different?" you have to believe that change is possible and achievable by peaceful means or you might as well shoot yourself and get it over with.

You'd think, to read some of the opinions on this forum, that no change had taken place at all. But real progress has been made – even I can see that as an outsider who has yet to even set foot on the island.

The earthquakes brought real empathy between the Greeks and Turks, and relations seem to have been improving steadily since. Costas K being a guest of honour at the wedding of Erdogan's daughter.

With Greece seeming to be genuinely building bridges with Turkey (despite a few squabbles over a a couple of rocks), and Turkey undoubtedly keen to enter the EU it looks to me like some clever diplomacy on the part of Mr. Papadopoulos (who, with his veto, is the only real influence who could keep Turkey out) and you could be looking at a peaceful solution to the Problem within the next decade (although that's just me guessing).

Looking at history to prove your point is a bit like interpreting the Koran to win an argument. You can always "out-academic" your opponent, but the heart and soul of the argument is that simple folk want to live out their lives in peace.

[paaul12]

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=30406

Dr. Mehmet Ozcan from USAK (International Strategic Research Organization) says that Turkey's fullmembership should be more important to Greece and the EU than the Greek Cyprus' membership: "Because Turkey with 75 million population and with the 17th biggest economy in the world Turkey has a great potential which cannot be compared with the Greek Cyprus. No one should sacrifice Turkey to the Greek Cyprus" Dr. Ozcan added.

Well something or someone will have to give, the question is What or Who?