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TURKISH GREEK BLACK & WHITE

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby michalis5354 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:31 am

Independence would mean that Cypriots in a democratic way would be able to decide their own future and design their own constidution. It is sad, but 50% independence is indeed what was given to us.


No this is not what independence mean!

Independence is fully autonomous self-government of a nation by its residents and indigenous population, generally exercising sovereignty.

or

the creation of a new nation state which is self-governed rather than ruled by another country

In the case of Cyprus neither of the above have been applied!
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Postby kalahari » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:42 am

michalis5354

Genuine question this, not meant to be in any way ironic or inflammatory, and please forgive my ignorance.

Aside from the northern invasion zone, who, apart from Cypriots, has sovereignty over Cyprus?

Also do you believe that the majority of Cypriots are disappointed ib having independence, and would prefer enosis?

I'm interested in your opinion.

kal
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Postby michalis5354 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:57 am


Genuine question this, not meant to be in any way ironic or inflammatory, and please forgive my ignorance.

Aside from the northern invasion zone, who, apart from Cypriots, has sovereignty over Cyprus?


I am not saying that Greece has control on Cyprus now no! Even Greece deny that! The attempt of the authorities to celebrate greek national victories ,The Greek flags in public places schools , churches etc the lack of the authorities to inform the public on the events as they had happened (I would love to see a documentary on what happened from 1960 to 1974 - Why there is no such documentary in TV?) Dont I have that right to be informed on what attrocities had been occur? All these violates in my opinion the principles of Independence!

Maybe the Turkish side offer also a misleading picture but this is not my problem . This is their problem. Refusing to see the Truth is not the right way to move forward.


Also do you believe that the majority of Cypriots are disappointed ib having independence, and would prefer enosis?


My opinion is that no I dont believe that this is the case. But I guess they prefer to see Cyprus having STRONG links with Greece which I totally disagree!
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Postby cypezokyli » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:37 am

we had here the discussion concerning angastaniotis documentary showing exactly those crimes committted by our community. guess how many stations showed it ? ...in the nation based on democracy and freedom as strahd put it :roll:
he was also accussed of creating a biased documentary.... as if the documentaries we ve seen up to now in tv are - not biased :roll:

but for that to happen you need media which are not under the goverments control... in the land of democracy and freedom of press:
http://www.makarios.ws/cgibin/hweb?-A=980&-V=perireousa

just press "play" and enjoy
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Postby miltiades » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:10 am

Kalahari , Enosis was indeed the goal of the 1955-59 struggle , and I , amongst other young men of the time joined the numerous pro Enosis demonstrations. Having grown up , having nurtured adult trhinking not influenced by doctrines that were so widespread during those years , have come to the conclusion that instead of Cyprus wanting Enosis with Greece it should have been the other way aroung. Greeks , from Greece ,should have demonstrated - in between various political demonstrations they so much love - to Unite with Cyprus. Im certain that the vast majority of Greek Cypriots would prefer a totaly independent Cyprus with Turkish and Greek mainland troops out of our land.We are a nation made up of mainly Greek and Turkish peoples .The Turks are not denying that they are Turkish Cypriots and we do not reject that we are Greek Cypriots but above all CYPRIOTS.
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Postby michalis5354 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:49 am

You are right miltiades. I have not lived the uncertainty of those days so its quite easy now to draw conclusions sitting on my chair.but what I am critical is to the actions of the authorities not to inform me on the events that they had occured and therefore to leave me free to make my own mind on what has happened!
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Postby malaka » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:03 am

kalahari wrote:malaka

Whether the joke has a funny side or not is neither here nor there. I guess that's a personal opinion. I was merely pointing out the deeply sad irony of a man who, after defiantly expressing his racial discrimination towards Turkish people on an international forum, then tells jokes where the punchline targets the racial discrimination of some Australians towards the aborigine.

You obviously do not see your inability to ever again see anybody Turkish as a brother or friend as a sad situation.

This in itself I find incredibly sad – that you have been poisoned so.

It is terrible that you were forced out at gun point from Cyprus and could find refuge only in Australia. Greece would have suited you so much better – it is sad that they would not allow you entry. Heaven only knows why they did not, but thankfully the Australians did.

I guess that you also cannot stomach the idea of returning to live permanently in Cyprus while the status quo remains. If I may express a personal opinion, it is probably best for you, and for those that stayed in Cyprus, that you remain in Australia until the status quo is formally resolved. It would put a terrible strain on your already angry heart, and your demanding war against Cypriots in the north would only exacerbate an improving situation, prolonging the status quo that you find so hard to tolerate.

I suggest you leave it to the voices of reason and diplomacy for now, as (while undoubtedly not as dramatic as sabre-rattling) this does tend to get the job done and allow all men to leave the table with dignity.

As for the English and German people hating each others guts – no my friend, there you are wrong too. You must be referring to a minority of extreme right wing people who refuse to allow the past to be the past. You wouldn't like these people – they have the same attitude as those various politicians whose actions and in-actions drove you from your home to Australia at gun point.

And killing each other in gangs? Dear me, you are unfortunate to witness so much violence in your lifetime. Luckily I have never witnessed this, despite living in England and being a frequent visitor to Germany on business. i must be more alert.

I seek not too trivialise your trials – you mention in a previous post that you had children from your family killed before your eyes. I find this absolutely appalling and totally, utterly indefensible.

My problem, and why I find your attitude so sad, is that you cannot see that carrying out your prolonged campaign of hatred against the Turkish people, or any Cypriot that arouses your suspicion, is equally appalling and totally, utterly indefensible.

Anyway, to return to the main thrust of your original post:

PLEASE EVERYONE EXPRESS YOUR OPINION ON THIS

Turks & Greeks have been enemies since the beginning of time.
Turks & Greeks will remain enemies.
The only solution for the Cyprus problem is for GC to take back what belongs to them by force.

I AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS

If you care to riffle through the posts that have come up so far, I think you will see that the overwhelming majority of correspondents do not agree with you at all.

So, yes – on this evidence it would appear that you are the only one who thinks this.

Maybe now we can move on.

Again, sadly, you have made it clear that you are not prepared to move on; that your memories make this impossible for you to do. Perhaps then you would care to find another community within which to seek approval of your discriminatory views?

I suggest you look for some of those extreme right wing people I was talking about before. They pop up all over the place, and enjoy talking about killing other races. Perhaps the next time you see some English and German gangs killing each other, you could stop them and ask if they know of any good forums?

I am genuinely, genuinely sorry that you lost members of your family in such a violent and bloody manner. I hope that you manage to find closure before your anger drives you to mete out similar actions on some other unfortunate soul's family.

I hope your life is unfolding more happily in Australia.

Kindest regards, Kalahari

I simply stated that the Turks that did this I will always hate and never forgett or forgive so dont lecture me on your views You see things the way you see them and I see them different.
Dont comment on things you have not experienced.
Maybe you should post your address so all the BAD Turks can come to your place rape everyone kill a few people force you out steal everything you own since you have no hatred in your heart and you are so forgiving of your brother Turks.
I think everyone answered your question at the referendum about me being the only one who thinks this way.
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Postby kalahari » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:42 am

PLEASE EVERYONE EXPRESS YOUR OPINION ON THIS

Dont comment on things you have not experienced.


Sorry mate, obviously got the wrong end of the stick.

I will make a point of not involving myself in such high-brow conversations again.

Love (remember that stuff?)

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Postby cypezokyli » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:20 pm

malaka wrote:I simply stated that the Turks that did this I will always hate and never forgett or forgive so dont lecture me on your views You see things the way you see them and I see them different.
Dont comment on things you have not experienced.
Maybe you should post your address so all the BAD Turks can come to your place rape everyone kill a few people force you out steal everything you own since you have no hatred in your heart and you are so forgiving of your brother Turks.
I think everyone answered your question at the referendum about me being the only one who thinks this way.


even if kalahari posted his adress nothing bad would have happened to him.
once again, check your calendar : it sais 2006!!
the attrocities in a war are always bad , and the ones the gcs commited were no better either.
moreover let me remind you that our official position is to share this country with our compatriots.
Maybe you should post your address so all the BAD Turks can come to your place rape everyone kill a few people force you out steal everything you own since you have no hatred in your heart and you are so forgiving of your brother Turks.
I think everyone answered your question at the referendum about me being the only one who thinks this way


so you also know why the gcs voted no... :roll:
i dont know how many i counted up to now...

i will not give an answer to this one , i expect the OXI supporters to say if thats the reason they voted OXI. i would be interesting to know if malaka represents you ....
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Postby michalis5354 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:59 pm

Strahd wrote:The language you speak is a dialect of Greek and not a separate language, just like in Greece if you go to the north you get a different dialect, if you go to Crete another dialect, actually the Cyprus dialect is very similar to the dialect they speak in Rhodes and has also very similarities to the one they speak in Corfu(because of similar history Venetians and British have ruled the island in the past)... a language has structure and grammar and is not about we say in cyprus "paw sto toilet" and in athens "paw toualeta". Linguistics is a very exact science and not an abstract idea.

Of course Greece has no Control over Cyprus and should never have.

I do not want to persuade you for anything, but I am afraid that facts are facts.



hmmm let me question your motives????????
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