Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

ofcource tcs are our brothers.

and i dont see a reason why the we shouldnt see the turkish people as our good neighbours.

[kalahari]

malaka

Whether the joke has a funny side or not is neither here nor there. I guess that's a personal opinion. I was merely pointing out the deeply sad irony of a man who, after defiantly expressing his racial discrimination towards Turkish people on an international forum, then tells jokes where the punchline targets the racial discrimination of some Australians towards the aborigine.

You obviously do not see your inability to ever again see anybody Turkish as a brother or friend as a sad situation.

This in itself I find incredibly sad – that you have been poisoned so.

It is terrible that you were forced out at gun point from Cyprus and could find refuge only in Australia. Greece would have suited you so much better – it is sad that they would not allow you entry. Heaven only knows why they did not, but thankfully the Australians did.

I guess that you also cannot stomach the idea of returning to live permanently in Cyprus while the status quo remains. If I may express a personal opinion, it is probably best for you, and for those that stayed in Cyprus, that you remain in Australia until the status quo is formally resolved. It would put a terrible strain on your already angry heart, and your demanding war against Cypriots in the north would only exacerbate an improving situation, prolonging the status quo that you find so hard to tolerate.

I suggest you leave it to the voices of reason and diplomacy for now, as (while undoubtedly not as dramatic as sabre-rattling) this does tend to get the job done and allow all men to leave the table with dignity.

As for the English and German people hating each others guts – no my friend, there you are wrong too. You must be referring to a minority of extreme right wing people who refuse to allow the past to be the past. You wouldn't like these people – they have the same attitude as those various politicians whose actions and in-actions drove you from your home to Australia at gun point.

And killing each other in gangs? Dear me, you are unfortunate to witness so much violence in your lifetime. Luckily I have never witnessed this, despite living in England and being a frequent visitor to Germany on business. i must be more alert.

I seek not too trivialise your trials – you mention in a previous post that you had children from your family killed before your eyes. I find this absolutely appalling and totally, utterly indefensible.

My problem, and why I find your attitude so sad, is that you cannot see that carrying out your prolonged campaign of hatred against the Turkish people, or any Cypriot that arouses your suspicion, is equally appalling and totally, utterly indefensible.

Anyway, to return to the main thrust of your original post:

PLEASE EVERYONE EXPRESS YOUR OPINION ON THIS

Turks & Greeks have been enemies since the beginning of time.
Turks & Greeks will remain enemies.
The only solution for the Cyprus problem is for GC to take back what belongs to them by force.

I AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS

If you care to riffle through the posts that have come up so far, I think you will see that the overwhelming majority of correspondents do not agree with you at all.

So, yes – on this evidence it would appear that you are the only one who thinks this.

Maybe now we can move on.

Again, sadly, you have made it clear that you are not prepared to move on; that your memories make this impossible for you to do. Perhaps then you would care to find another community within which to seek approval of your discriminatory views?

I suggest you look for some of those extreme right wing people I was talking about before. They pop up all over the place, and enjoy talking about killing other races. Perhaps the next time you see some English and German gangs killing each other, you could stop them and ask if they know of any good forums?

I am genuinely, genuinely sorry that you lost members of your family in such a violent and bloody manner. I hope that you manage to find closure before your anger drives you to mete out similar actions on some other unfortunate soul's family.

I hope your life is unfolding more happily in Australia.

Kindest regards, Kalahari

[andri_cy]

what do you mean "just for the sake of solving a poltical problem" ?

isnt that good reason enough ?

Denying your roots is never good. We are Cypriots and then we are Greeks in culture-i.e. religion, dialect etc. Both as important. Denying it will just create new peoblems. But on the other hand, michalis never said he is not Greek Cypriot . He just said that Cyprus wont be a Greek island, as in it will never be a part of Greece. Thats the way I understood it anyway.

[cypezokyli]

what do you mean "just for the sake of solving a poltical problem" ?

isnt that good reason enough ?

Denyng your roots is never good. We are Cypriots and then we are Greeks in culture. Both as important. Denying it will just create new peoblems. But on the other hand, michalis never said he is not Greek Cypriot . He just said that Cyprus wont be a Greek island, as in it will never be a part of Greece. Thats the way I understood it anyway.

denying your roots is a very general sentence, and you will have to explain it to me

bc, these things always end up in generalities, let me give you two examples.

i will not change the huge number of greek cds i have in my collection (and by that i dont mean americanised greek music that most greeks listen to). i would not do that for noone.

but, knowing that me in cyprus, celebrating the national holidays of greece, or even worse the national holidays that are "victories" against the turks , is not helping the peace in my island, then i am willing to forget those celebrations (that i ve learned to celebrate as a kid), for the purpose of peace.
moreover by doing that, i have the right to ask from my tcs brother not to celebrate national holidays of turkey.

now it is up to you to decide if i abandon my roots or not

these are just two random examples.
if you give me more, concrete ones i can answer .
the rest is pure generalities

[michalis5354]

Latvians Lithuanians, and many others got their independence and they havent looked back. They dont claim they are russians although they have many traditional and cultural links with Russia.

Cyprus has never worked towards enforcing an independent attitude and spirit on the island. No one said to reject your links with Greece. The point is that as long as you are an independent entity based on the Internation law and agreements then you ought to have behaved as such and not as a puppet or a province of another country! Anyone who is being on the island and seen all these greek flags around I wonder what signal that he/she gets! As I said there is nothing as 50% independent. Either you are independent and you behave as such . Or you are not independent.

Where was your motherland in 1974 when you needed real support and assistance as a guarantor first and as a motherland secondly?

[kalahari]

Once again I find myself agreeing with michalis5354.

There's no harm in acknowledging your roots, and even being proud of them.

But to let them replace who you are now? That's just crazy. Live in today, not tomorrow, not yesterday. Today will bring its fair share of problems.

Cyprus has to learn to be Cyprus! Not a little barnacle stuck to the underbelly of Greece.

[Piratis]

Latvians Lithuanians, and many others got their independence and they havent looked back. They dont claim they are russians although they have many traditional and cultural links with Russia.

michalis, sorry to say but the example you use is irrelevant. The people of the Baltic apart that they were forced to live under the USSR against their will, they have nothing more to do with the Russians than the Finnish have.

As I said there is nothing as 50% independent. Either you are independent and you behave as such . Or you are not independent.

Well, the 50% independence was invented for the case of Cyprus and some others. Do you know many countries that their constitution was written and forced upon them by outsiders?

Independence would mean that Cypriots in a democratic way would be able to decide their own future and design their own constidution. It is sad, but 50% independence is indeed what was given to us.

[andri_cy]

denying your roots is a very general sentence, and you will have to explain it to me

bc, these things always end up in generalities, let me give you two examples.

i will not change the huge number of greek cds i have in my collection (and by that i dont mean americanised greek music that most greeks listen to). i would not do that for noone.

but, knowing that me in cyprus, celebrating the national holidays of greece, or even worse the national holidays that are "victories" against the turks , is not helping the peace in my island, then i am willing to forget those celebrations (that i ve learned to celebrate as a kid), for the purpose of peace.
moreover by doing that, i have the right to ask from my tcs brother not to celebrate national holidays of turkey.

now it is up to you to decide if i abandon my roots or not

these are just two random examples.
if you give me more, concrete ones i can answer .
the rest is pure generalities

Well of course there are things that have to change. But we cant deny the fact that we come from Greek origin. I am sure that the TC's dont want to deny that they are from Turkish origin either. Our national holidays should be national holidays that have to do with Cyprus of course and not Greece. But the religion most of us believe in is Greek Orthodox, the Language we speak is a Greek dialect and the music we listen to is Greek.
You cannot deny those facts and you can tell me all day long Cypriots speak their own language but that wont make it true. What Cypriots speak is very close to some form of ancient Greek. We are of Greek origin, yet that doesnt make us Greek. We are Cypriots from the country of Cyprus, which is an independent country. Am I willing to stop celebrating the national holidays of Greece? Absolutely! But am I willing to say I am Cypriot and I have nothing to do with Greece and Greek people? Absolutely not.

[cypezokyli]

nobody said to brake those links.
its jsut a stupid dillema that the parties made us fight the whole time over it.

usually we agree, (with the exception of some weird cases still mentioning enosis) but it strictly depends what we mean by saying : cyprus is greek , or cyprus will never be greek. its just too things one can shout but seldom can you tell what they exactly mean by that. but the first reaction when i hear "cyprus is greek" is to oppose it knowing the bad impression it causes to our compatriots.

as for the language : its one of the results of the creation of nations. that is the homoganisation of languages at the expense of dialects. i dont mind learning modern greek , but i am frustruted not to menton disgusted at times, the way we treat our dialect , which we ourselves are forcing into extinction.

music : since we are not proud of being cypriot - you can see that effect on music. in stark contrast with the cretans who even today are producing cretan music , and are proud of their culture in comparison to us. believe me i like cypriot music but simply there are not enough cypriots out there. and the music we listen is greek.... i would say its american with greek lyrics. and thats the funny thing with most "greeks". if you try to challange their nation they get angry , when it comes down to reality , are their actions and their behavior really "greek" ?..... allow me to have my doubts on that. it is this hypocricy that i cannot stand, if you know what i mean

religion : part of our tradition , but not more than that - when it comes to me. i am not religious , and i have a lot of disagreements with the church. i never understood why religion is mentioned in this whole story...

there is also sth else in the equation that nobody mentions. its geography. bc the characteristics of a "nation" where created by a german sth like 200 years ago and the funny thing is : everybody believed him!!! he argued that they are four : language , religion , tradition and one more that i can never remember but he forgot geography. people believed him, they fought wars over it, and never paused for a second to think - why the hell do i fight with my neighbour and associate my self with someone who lives thousands of miles away ?
in short... one of the biggest diseases of all times : nationalism

[michalis5354]

michalis, sorry to say but the example you use is irrelevant. The people of the Baltic apart that they were forced to live under the USSR against their will, they have nothing more to do with the Russians than the Finnish have.

How do you know that they have been forced to live under the USSR against their will? Any sources to read?

Well, the 50% independence was invented for the case of Cyprus and some others. Do you know many countries that their constitution was written and forced upon them by outsiders?

Independence would mean that Cypriots in a democratic way would be able to decide their own future and design their own constidution. It is sad, but 50% independence is indeed what was given to us.

What do you mean 50% was invented in the case of Cyprus? Does it stay anywhere in the constitution that Greek flags or Tursih flags should be all around the island including public buildings and churces?

Even if that constitutional that has been accepted not enforced was not perefect people could have taken actions and measures to improve it. Makarios still had that right to refuse to sign it IF the constitution was not in the interest of cypriots.But he did not refuse to sign it.

People at that time wanted ENOSIS not independence and this is the reason the Constitution has not worked. Having put in effort to make the constitution work then things could have been much different. NO REAL EFFORT INDEED. Just they wanted ENOSIS and not independence. ANd I still wander Why?[/quote]