Cyprus-Forum.com

[michalis5354]

Why is it not possible exactly for refugees to return?

It is not possible because not all refugees will accept the option to return. How do you know that all refugees will accept this option to return If it was available?

People have settle down in either South or North , they have invested money at the place where they are now. They have commitments( Jobs etc). Can you see many returning on these circumstances. Returning implies additional costs.

[andri_cy]

Malaka If one gets your watch valued 100 pounds and offers you 100 pounds in Cash in compensation will you call this a theft? They will be compensated for their loss or gain.

Some of the refugees will return as a % of land is expected to be returned.Here there is no problem.

As a matter of simplicity it is not possible for everyone to re locate again for 2nd-3rd time.

I have no problem with mixing but I see this not working in practice as it seems so costly. Think all these people who have settle down either in South or North to make new arrangements( ie loans etc) now and relocate for another time.

Yes unfortunately it is still theft. The person that stole the watch made restitution but that doesnt mean he didnt steal the watch to begin with. That doesnt mean that the people who now live in GC's homes in the north are all thieves. Some of them had no choice. It was either that or that streets or dead I suppose. But if someone steals your watch and afterwards gives you money for it, he is still a thieve even though he is trying to make good. What if the watch was worth 100 pounds in money but was priceless in other ways? What if that 100$ watch was passed down from father to son for generations? Then, even if the watch was worth in money 10 $ and he gave you 100$ it still doesnt make up for the loss. Thats not to say that the situation is the same.

[malaka]

Why is it not possible exactly for refugees to return?

It is not possible because not all refugees will accept the option to return. How do you know that all refugees will accept this option to return If it was available?

People have settle down in either South or North , they have invested money at the place where they are now. They have commitments( Jobs etc). Can you see many returning on these circumstances. Returning implies additional costs.

I am not saying they will accept that option and return.
What I am saying is that all legall owners to get back what is theirs regardless of them returning back or not.

They then can sell if they do not want to return or rent them out.

At least give them that option.

You possibly cant expect anyone to accept that someone has stole their house REGARDLESS GREEK TURK BLACK WHITE then they want to compensate you for it. Unless of course you are the one that stole it.

I will argue with you until the cows come home.
What about the people that settled down and invested pre 74 Did they not have jobs and commitments Relocating 200000 refuges did not cost anything.Or does that not matter

Because people have settled down in houses does that give them the right to stay?? GREEK or TURK

[malaka]

Malaka If one gets your watch valued 100 pounds and offers you 100 pounds in Cash in compensation will you call this a theft? They will be compensated for their loss or gain.

Some of the refugees will return as a % of land is expected to be returned.Here there is no problem.

As a matter of simplicity it is not possible for everyone to re locate again for 2nd-3rd time.

I have no problem with mixing but I see this not working in practice as it seems so costly. Think all these people who have settle down either in South or North to make new arrangements( ie loans etc) now and relocate for another time.

Michalis how did one get the watch in the first place. (STOLE IT)

I can understand if you want to buy my watch for some reason or rather but you are not seriously suggesting that stealing someones watch and offering them even double shoulld be accepted in any langauge?


The right thing to do is give me my watch back even if I bought a new one. It belonged to me I should have the final say no one else. heck I might even say keep it i dont want it i have moved on 2 many memmories but dont tell me you are going to pay me for it.

[stuballstu]

kalahari wrote

stuballstu, take a look at the map above, in my previous post. Now, I have no idea how integrated the communities were, but just looking at how wide-spread the integration of the two cultures were geographically, you can't help wondering how they sorted out the GCs from the TCs so cleanly after 1974. Surely there MUST have been some cross-culture marriages.

I am sure that there were Kalarahi maybe some of the Cypriot members of the board may be able to give an idea of potential numbers. Its not just a case of marriage though, surely at that time both GC's and TC's socialised, were neighbours, done business together, let their children play together etc etc. I am not saying that it was all good and harmonious however surely this was the case for the majority.

One case of a mixed marriage which was reported in the press a few months ago. The story related to a travel company, based in the UK, who sell holidays to the North. The reports in the press said that the GC Board of Tourism had threated to withold subsidies to a chain of travel agents if they displayed brochures from this Cypriot guys company. He threated to sue them and them the magazines re appeared on the shelves again. He issued a press statement asking for the media not to exploit this for political purposes as he was not wanting to score points with anyone he just wanted to be able to sell holidays. It is a well known fact that his wife is Greek Cypriot.

Malaka wrote

That is exactly why there will be no solution. GC & TC want back what they own full stop. They have the right to decide what to do with their houses no one else.
I do not agree with you at all about manipulative politicians.
They want the legall owners of their properties to return.

Malaka i respect what you have to say, however i dont think that there is as many GC and TC's who want back there properties as you might think. So many have no moved on, their children have made their own lives. I dont mean to sound heartless when i say this, however any refugees who think that they can go back to the life that they had pre 74 is dillusioned. It is almost impossible to do that. In an ideal world all refugees would get their property back, however we do not live in ideal world.

I do think think that politicians, in particular on the GC side, play on this for their own benefits. Granted it would take an extremely brave politician to stand up and say "the reality of the situation is that most refugees are unlikely to return"."Cypriot politicians are more likely to say " Its Americas fault, they done nothing to intervene. When we wanted British support they sides with the Amercans and the Turks. The Chinese have said they will look at a plan." Then when some questions come from the USA and Britain they will say that it was an "error" in translation

As more and more time goes by the numbers of refugees who would have the opportunity to return is getting reduced along with the numbers who want to return.

[malaka]

It is not a matter of how many want the properties back that is irelevant that is not my argument. My argument is
If 8 out of 10 people GC & TC do not want the properties back that does not mean they dont want to have the final say.


My point is this The legall owners have the final say REGARDLESS IF THEY WANT TO GO BACK OR NOT
I think the numbers would lean towards my theory if you asked the legall owners only to vote.

(MAYBE THEY SHOULD DO THAT JUST THAT ASK THEM TO VOTE)

I think it would take a very brave Turkish politician to stand up and say we must give back to the legal owners GC & TC their houses.

I think you are wrong about a GC politician saying that not all refugees will return. If you told a politician that all legal owners will get back their properties any politician would shout it out. ALL LEGALL OWNERS ARE GOING TO GET THEIR PROPS BACK but unfortunatelly not all refugees will return.

Because we do not live in a ideal world as you say that will never happen GC & TC politicians agree to disagree hence my original post the only way to unite the island is by force either way.

[michalis5354]

Here we are discussing how to solve the Cy problem and I dont force my opinion to anyone here. Everyone is welcomed to agree and to diasgree this is freedom of speech.

So the next scenarion that comes to my mind is that GCs to go to the North and then the TCs can come to the South unless you want the TCs to move out from the island. Take into account that TCs pre 1974 were living mostly in the South.

As I said I am referring to a Fair compensation scheme in my post which will take into account what the GC refugees had prior to the 1974 and compensate them in monetary terms accordingly at the end of the day every one will be satisfied. A win win solution this is the one I am referring!

Malaka I take the conclusion on your last post that the only alternative is a war and this is enough I am not going to comment further.

[michalis5354]

So the ideal solution is the go back to the Pre 1974 situation? I dont think that this is achievable!

[malaka]

So the ideal solution is the go back to the Pre 1974 situation? I dont think that this is achievable!

If every got back their properties would that mean we are going back to pre 1974??

If thats what all the TCS think then Iam affraid there will never be a solution.

[malaka]

Here we are discussing how to solve the Cy problem and I dont force my opinion to anyone here. Everyone is welcomed to agree and to diasgree this is freedom of speech.

So the next scenarion that comes to my mind is that GCs to go to the North and then the TCs can come to the South unless you want the TCs to move out from the island. Take into account that TCs pre 1974 were living mostly in the South.

As I said I am referring to a Fair compensation scheme in my post which will take into account what the GC refugees had prior to the 1974 and compensate them in monetary terms accordingly at the end of the day every one will be satisfied. A win win solution this is the one I am referring!

Malaka I take the conclusion on your last post that the only alternative is a war and this is enough I am not going to comment further.

If the GC that have houses in the north and want to move back why not same for the TC in the south.

You can not say we will compensate you accordingly at the end of the day we are going back to the watch schenario again!!!!!!!!!!

A win win solution has to be agreed on not forced on.

I am far from war I have experienced it with my own eyes.

But one has to wonder it was an alternative for Turkey in 1974