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Is reunification possible with this attitude.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby stuballstu » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:48 am

The views of some people will never change and we will always have a minority of racists. The problem is that racism leads to racism which in turn leads to more racism.


Agreed!

The way I see it nobody should be able to act on his racist beliefs. If somebody dislikes some people because of their race thats his problem. If for example a Greek Cypriot doesn't like Turkish Cypriots then moving out of Cyprus himself is the best option for him.


Piratis, would it be safe to say that the minority of GC's and TCs who "detest" each other have either not met their cousins on the opposite sides of the green line or had very minimal contact with them. I have found in my experiences that both TC's and GC's are very similiar. The majority of which are very hospitable, helpful, decent people. There are some exceptions but every country has some "bad apples".

EOKA and EOKA B are 2 different organizations. You need to read a bit more on your country's hostory before you make statements


Andri for the less informed on the BB would you be kind enought to point out the differences of the 2 organisations?

i actually feel a little sorry for GreekCypriotGurl_UK. She lives in a multi cultural society and is quite proud of that fact, however has obviously been "fed" propoganda all her life about Turks, Turkish Cypriots and how good Greece and Greek Cypriots are and that they can do no wrong. That is not her fault, it is the fault of the adults who have brainwashed her feelings. The best thing she could do is go to Kyrenia and meet some Turkish Cypriots and see if her feelings change towards them.
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Postby Bananiot » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:42 am

EOKA operated between 1955 and 1959. EOKA B operated between 1971 and 1974. The leader of both organisations was Grivas. EOKA started as an organisation fighting for the liberation of Cyprus from the Brits but aimed not for an independent country but for union (enosis) with Greece. It also targetted leftists (in fact killed more Cypriots than Brits) and to a far lesser extend Turkish Cypriots. EOKA B turned violent against Makarios when the latter, after years of pondering with enosis, realised at last that union with Greece was no more an option. AKEL followed Makarios on his enosis path and only in 1968 when Makarios eventually came to his sences did AKEL also buried the enosis dream. The nationalists in the Greek Community could not stomach this and turned against Makarios trying on a number of occasions to assasinate him. Eventually, with the help of the Greek junta they staged a military coup and the rest is fairly well known, I presume.

Just one thought on the above. Had the nationalists been able to establish their hold on Cyprus, I would not like to think of what may have happened to Turkish Cypriots or indeed Greek Cypriot leftists. By saying this I am not advocating that Turkey was justified to invade but I try to see things from the prospective of my Turkish Cypriot compatriots who had no reason to support enosis. After all, when Crete achieved enosis with Greece, the Turkish speaking Cretans were reduced to 0. It is a pity that today, afer so much suffering in the hands of nationalists from both communities, we find ourself (in the south) governed by a most reactionary person and well known rejectionist while in the north, Talat and his party, along with other progressive forces have made huge strides forward.
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Postby Bananiot » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:49 am

Tonight, in North Nicosia, Pavlos Dinglis's book on the referendum, will be presented by Niazi Kizilyurek. The presentation will be made at 20.00 hours at the Teachers Union building (I think in Cucuk Kaimakli). Come and listen to a Greek cypriot "heretic". I say heretic because the number of people in the south who want to co exist with the Turkish Cypriots is fast dwindling. I will be glad to meet with you there or to renew acquaintance.
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Postby Svetlana » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:58 am

One version of who EOKA A and B were:

EOKA (Εθνική Οργάνωσις Κυπρίων Αγωνιστών, Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston, in English National Organisation of Cypriot Fighters) was a Greek Cypriot nationalist organisation that fought for the expulsion of United Kingdom troops from the island, for self-determination and for union with Greece in the mid to late 1950s.

The organisation was headed by George Grivas, a Cyprus born Colonel in the Greek army who distinguished himself during World War II and the subsequent Hellenic Civil War. Grivas assumed the nom de guerre Digenis in honour of the Byzantine legend Digenis Akritas who repelled invaders from the Byzantine Empire during the middle ages. EOKA was clandestinely supported by the Greek Government in the form of arms, money and propaganda on radio stations aired from Athens. Its military campaign began on April 1, 1955; while its main target was the British military, the EOKA also targeted civilian installations on the island as well as assassinating pro-British Cypriots, informants, Communists, Taksim (partition) supporters, and members of the Turkish Cypriot insurgent organisation Turkish Resistance Organization. Over 30,000 British troops were assigned to combat the organisation, which officially claimed the life of 104 British military personnel. In the conflict died also 90 insurgents, 50 policemen and 238 civilians. EOKA's activity lasted until December 1958 where a cease-fire was declared which paved the way for the Zurich agreement on the future of the country.

Their aim to rid Cyprus of British rule was met when on 16 August 1960 Cyprus achieved independence from the United Kingdom. However, the settlement explicitly denied enosis - the union with Greece sought by EOKA. Although Cyprus gained its independence, it came with a complex constitution and a security arrangement compromising of a three-way guaranteeship from Turkey, Greece and Britain. See History of Cyprus.


EOKA-B
EOKA-B was a Greek Cypriot right-wing pro-enosis paramilitary organisation formed in 1971 that was supported by the ruling Greek junta which came to power in 1967 overthrowing the legitimate Greek government of George Papandreou. When George Grivas returned to Cyprus in 1971 he created EOKA-B in response to President Archbishop Makarios' deviation from the policy of enosis. He was angered by Makarios rejection of enosis in 1959 and was further upset when the President reaffirmed this position when re-elected as President in 1968, Grivas took the reins of EOKA-B and attempted to overthrow him and achieve enosis through violent means.

Whereas EOKA (1955-59) was seen by the majority of the Greek Cypriots as anti-colonialist freedom fighters, EOKA-B did not have the overwhelming support of the Greek Cypriot population who where sceptical over the organisations involvement with the unpopular Greek dictatorship and did not want to swap their newly found independence with direct rule from Athens. The organisations unpopularity increased after attacks on Greek Cypriot Socialists and supporters of independence, while public outrage followed the murder of government minister Polycarpos Georgadjis and a botched assassination attempt on Makarios.

When Grivas died from heart failure in January 1974, the new leadership of EOKA-B increasingly came under the direct control and influence of the military junta in Athens. On July 15, 1974, EOKA-B with approval of the Greek Dictator Ioannides and the help of the National Guard, launched a military coup overthrowing Makarios and installing Nikos Sampson as President of Cyprus. This action served only to cause a Turkish military intervention on July 20, 1974 which led to the subsequent de facto division of the island.

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Postby stuballstu » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:08 am

Thanks for that Bananiot and Svetlana.

Hopefully GreekCypriotGurl_UK will read this and maybe learn a little more about the history of her country.
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Postby Bananiot » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:42 pm

There are are some inaccuracies in Svetlana's acount imo. For a start Grivas did not distinguish himself during the 2nd world war. In fact he shamelesly collaborated with the German occupiers of Greece in order to attack ELAS (leftist resistance organisation) with his X brigades.

On the other hand, Policarpos Yiorgatzis was a fanatical proponent of a clean solution and together with Papadopoulos he came up with the "Akritas" plan that aimed at getting rid of the Turkish Cypriot community in the course of 24 hours. He was definately not murdered by EOKA B but his assasins were probably mainland Greeks who got very worried with his shady deals.
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Postby Bananiot » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:45 pm

Thanks for the PM stuballstu, my browser will not let me reply to you. I will try to give some feedback on tonight's meeting.
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Postby michalis5354 » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:40 pm

GreekCypriotGurl_UK wrote:i dont know much about EOKA but what i heard was they where fighting the British Colonist in the 1960s but if EOKA did Wrong still that does not justify Turkey invading Cyprus and stealing Greeks homes and killing people


Yes they were fighting the British Colonist not for Independence but to annex Cyprus to Greece!

Yes It does not Justify Turkey invading Cyprus this is the reason the problem is still unresolved and is seeking solution through the UN.


I beleive that Turkey would have still invaded Cyprus if it was not for EOKA. Turks said it themselfs that they see Cyprus as part of Turkey
becasue it was under the ottoman empire and not just Cyprus Turkey also claims some of the Aegean islands in Greece is EOKA in the Aegean islands ? was there EOKA when Turks stole Constantinople? i can not feel much sympathy for the turkish Cypriots as they called for Turkey to invade Cyprus


These are assumptions only! The Turkish military sees Cyprus for strategic reasons yes but it is not up to them , there is also a Turksih government who can influence policies and who can make a change If there is indeed a real determination from all the people in Cyprus to end the conflict! TCs have also reasons to end the conflict , GCs also have . Turkey will not ignore these as long as the people of Cyprus want a solution. Just PROVE IT SHOW TO THEM THAT YOU WANT A SOLUTION BY ACTIONS NOT FAKE WORDS!
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Postby cypezokyli » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:40 pm

Bananiot wrote:There are are some inaccuracies in Svetlana's acount imo. For a start Grivas did not distinguish himself during the 2nd world war. In fact he shamelesly collaborated with the German occupiers of Greece in order to attack ELAS (leftist resistance organisation) with his X brigades.

On the other hand, Policarpos Yiorgatzis was a fanatical proponent of a clean solution and together with Papadopoulos he came up with the "Akritas" plan that aimed at getting rid of the Turkish Cypriot community in the course of 24 hours. He was definately not murdered by EOKA B but his assasins were probably mainland Greeks who got very worried with his shady deals.


not to mention that when ELAS was about to capture athens (waiting for the soviet order that never came) they attacked grivas group at a place in athens called theisio.... the million dollar question is : quess who saved his ass from the communists ?
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Postby Strahd » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:51 pm

It is really amazing to see how the division of Hellinism during the post world war II Greece and the Greek civil war has been so deeply engraved into the soul of the Greeks of Cyprus that lasts until today almost 60 years after it started. :(
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