Cyprus-Forum.com

[MR-from-NG]

We could all argue the reasons to this till the cows come home. The GC's will say one thing TC's will say another. It is important to take note of what people on the outside think of the situation. Enjoy the article.



Written evidence submitted by Michael Stephen[107]


WHY IS CYPRUS DIVIDED?

It is necessary to know what happened in Cyprus between the foundation of the Republic in 1960 and the Turkish intervention in 1974, not for historical interest but in order to determine whether the political status of the Greek Cypriot Administration today, and its acceptance by the world is justified. If the Turkish Cypriots had simply withdrawn from the institutions of the Republic in 1964 with no reasonable excuse, and if the Turkish army had invaded in 1974 without any legal right or humanitarian justification, then perhaps the world would be right to treat the Greek Cypriot Administration as if it were the Government of Cyprus. The truth of the matter is however very different.


This is an important question, because the ability of the Greek Cypriot Administration to enforce an embargo on Turkish Cypriot trade, sport, and communications derives from their acceptance by other countries and institutions as if they were the lawful government of all Cyprus.


The former British Prime Minister, Sir Alec Douglas-Home said in his memoirs[108] he had been convinced that if the Greek Cypriots could not treat the Turkish Cypriots as human beings they were inviting the invasion and partition of the island.


The American Under-Secretary of State, George Ball, said in his own memoirs[109], that the central interest of the Greek Cypriot leader, Makarios, "was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots. Obviously we would never permit that." The fact is however that neither the US, the UK, the UN, nor anyone, other than Turkey ever took effective action to prevent it.


The most remarkable feature of the Cyprus question is the extent to which the Greek Cypriots have been able to repudiate solemn international agreements and violate the human rights of the Turkish Cypriots on a massive scale and yet by a quite astonishing feat of public relations, have secured for themselves acceptance as the government of all Cyprus and have persuaded the world that they, and not the Turkish Cypriots, are the injured party. The consequence of this is that they have been able to extract one-sided resolutions from the United Nations and other international organisations, and have been able to secure court judgments which have been immensely damaging to the Turkish Cypriots and have placed the Turkish Cypriots under a crippling embargo on their international trade and communications.


For more than 40 years the Turkish Cypriots and their government have been faced with one of the hardest tasks in the whole range of international affairs—how to get the world to change its mind after it has got hold of the wrong end of the stick and clung to it year after year.


The Greek Cypriots claim that the Cyprus problem was caused by the landing of Turkish troops in 1974 and that if only they would withdraw, the problem would be solved. This is a serious misconception, for the landing of Turkish troops was the consequence, not the cause, of the problem. Moreover, there were in fact two military actions in 1974; the first was by Greece and the Greek Cypriots, which caused the second by Turkey.


In the view of Greek Cypriot journalist, Aleccos Constantinides[111] the Greek Cypriot political parties DIKO and EDEK "are acting as if the Cyprus problem began and ended in 1974. They refrain from talking about the previous coups. The first coup was not in 1974, but only a few years after we had attained our independence (in 1960). Had it not been for the first coup there would not have been the 1974 coup."


Another Greek Cypriot journalist, Stavros Angelides, wrote in Fileleftheros on 16 September 1990 "With the passage of time we the Greek Cypriots forget, or wilfully disregard, the events which led to the present situation in Cyprus. We forget our faults and we ask all the more emphatically everybody else to deliver to us justice as we understand it. We talk in generalities and in vague terms about UN Resolutions, and actually mean those which favour us. The others, such as Resolution 649 are not fair—we do not want them—let them go to hell."
www.parliament.the-statio...13we45.htm

[Tuberider]

Turkey has always been a quasi-Fascist country; brutal and corrupt !

They have no idea of democratic norms and values and the EU will have a difficult time to drag them kicking and screaming into the civilized world.

But I do admit that we asked for it in 1974.

I am only suprised the Turkish Army didn't land earlier, during the intercommunal clashes of the 60's

They let us off the hook a few times then, but even a fool could see that they would seize the chance to invade after EOKA-B ousted Big Mac from the presidential palace in 74

Now we cry, boo-hoo, that the horrible Turks threw us out of our land.

But we did not shoot the traitors who opened the door to them. Instead we pardoned them and made them our leaders for many years.

We Greek-Cypriots have always been our own worst enemy, and I suspect we always will be.

[Piratis]

I didn't even bother to read beyong this point: "Michael Stephen".

This is the person whose writings are included in all Turkish propaganda and is copy-pasted by people like mrfromng.

But since you asked for more outsiders, here you go:

''Sun reporter Iain Walker sends a shock report from Cyprus on the Turkish invaders
BARBARIANS
NICOSIA, SUNDAY

'My fiance and six men were shot dead. The Turkish soldiers laughed at me and then I was raped.
GREEK CYPRIOT GIRL AGED 20

'The Turkish soldiers cut off my father's hands and legs. Then they shot him while I watched.
GREEK CYPRIOT WOMAN AGED 32

'They shot the men. My friend's wife said 'Why should I live without my husband?' A soldier shot her in the head.
GREEK CYPRIOT FARMER AGED 51

A HORRIFYING story of atrocities by the Turkish invaders of Cyprus emerged today. It was told by weeping Greek Cypriot villagers rescued by United Nations soldiers.

THEY TOLD of barbaric rape at gunpoint ... and threats of instant execution if they struggled.
THEY TOLD of watching their loved ones tortured and shot.

The villagers are from Trimithi, Karmi and Ayios Georhios, three farming communities west of the holiday town of Kyrenia, directly in the path of the Turkish Army.

Sheltered
They had been trapped since the fighting began two weeks ago and were only evacuated to Nicosia by the UN on Saturday. And today at a Nicosia orphanage they told me their tales – simply and without any prompting.

A 20-year old girl in a pretty yellow and white dress sat under a painting of Jesus tending his flock as she described how she was raped.

She had been visiting her fiance who worked in a hotel near Kyrenia when the Turks attacked. For the first 24 hours she sheltered with other villagers in a stable until they were discovered by Turkish soldiers. She then watched as her fiance and six other men were shot dead in cold blood – only a few minutes after they had been promised that they would not be harmed.

She said: ''After the shooting, a Turkish soldier grabbed me and pulled me into a ditch. I struggled and tried to escape but he pushed me to the ground.

''He tore at my clothes and they were ripped up to my waist. Then he started undressing himself.

Baby
"Another Turkish soldier who was watching us had a nine-month-old baby in his arms and, trying to save myself, I shouted that the baby was mine.

''But they laughed at me and threw the baby to the ground. I was then raped and I fainted soon after.

''When I came to my senses I saw 15 other soldiers standing round watching. The first soldier was taking off my watch and engagement ring. Others were going to rape me - when one of them objected and told them not to be animals.

''I will never forget him for saving me. He was quite unlike the rest - more like an Englishman with blond hair and blue eyes. He spoke to me in English.

''He helped me to my feet and said, 'All is OK now.'

''The others tried to stop him, but he pulled out his gun and pushed his way through and gave me back to the other women.

''When I had recovered, after a few hours, I went to where the bushes had been burned by the shelling and rubbed charcoal over my face and hands, so I would be ugly and they would not do that to me again.''

The girl, too ashamed to reveal her name, added: ''I cannot put into words the horror I feel at what happened to me. I think I would have preferred it it they had shot me.''

Mrs Elena Mateidou, aged 28 was awakened by Turkish soldiers at Trimithi.

She said: ''My husband and father were told to take off all their clothes and they walked us down a dry river bed.

''Then the soldiers separated the women and children and ushered us behind some olive trees. I heard a burst of shooting and knew that they had been killed.

''Later they took us back to the village with our hands tied behind our backs. Two soldiers took me into a room in a deserted house where they raped me.

Bodies
"One of them held a gun to my head while it was happening and said if I struggled he would shoot.

''Afterwards, a soldier took off my wedding ring and wore it himself.''

Mrs Mateidou added: ''I saw another woman being pulled into a bathroom where she too was raped.

''Later I went back to the olive groves and found the bodies of my husband and father along with five other men. My father had been stabbed and my husband shot in the belly.''

Later, United Nations soldiers brought the villagers food. ''The Turks took it away and ate it themselves said Mrs Mateidou.

Another woman who had been an intended rape victim was Miss Phrosa Meitani, aged 32.

She said: ''When I saw what was happening, I ran as quickly as I could. I saw the soldiers pointing guns at me, but I was too frightened to care.

''I hid in the olive groves and tried to get back to where I had been separated from my father.

''I watched from the bushes as they cut off his hands and legs below the knee with a double-edged cutting knife.

''At first he screamed, and beat at them with his fists, but then he became quiet and did not utter a word. Then they shot him in the stomach while I watched.

Farmer Christos Savva Drakos, 51, saw his wife and two sons murdered.

''I was watering my orchard when the bombs started to explode,'' he said.

Shooting
''With the rest of the village we tried to run away through the groves and river beds but the Turks caught us and we surrendered.

''They searched us but no one had a gun.

''The the shooting started. It was one by one to start with and I heard my 16-year-old boy Georgios saying in a calm voice 'Daddy, they have shot me.'

''I pulled him down and we fell behind a rock, He died there in my arms. ''An officer had been attracted by the shooting and he ran up to see what was going on.

''He was furious with his men and ordered them to stop.

''My wife and my other boy Nicos, who was only 13, were dead.

''My friend's wife was terribly badly injured and she told the officer: 'Why should I live without my husband? Shoot me'.

''The officer shrugged his shoulders and walked off and a soldier shot her in the head.''

Face
If the Turkish authorities deny these allegations I will remember the drawn face of that old man cowering in a corner, his body racked with tears.

This elderly man was no actor, or a man ordered to lie for political propaganda.

He was a poor man who had lost everything he ever possessed or loved in the world.

Hotel manager Vassalious Efthimiou was the only survivor in a party of men seized by the Turks.

He said: ''They separated the men from the women and shot the 12 men.

''Those killed ranged from a 12-year-old boy to an old man in his 90's.''

His brother-in-law was shot dead while holding Efthimiou's four year-old daughter, Estella, in his arms.

Bullet
Today, Estella showed where a bullet had hit her thigh.

Efthimiou saved his own life by snatching his other daughter, Charian, aged two, and running.

He said:''I ran until my legs would carry me no longer, and I fell.

''I managed to make my way back later to a village where all the women were trembling with fear and shock.

''I handed my daughter to my wife and said I must save myself.

''I hid in a deep well in my sister's farm for seven days and nights, sitting on a little bar with my feet in the water.

''When I could not take any more I came up.''

Efthimiou and his 37-year-old wife, Helen, run the Mermaid Hotel at Six Mile Beach, Kyrenia, a popular hotel with British tourists.

PRESIDENT Glafkkos Clerides of Cyprus flew into Athens today and accused Turkish troops of mass murders and rape.

Denial
He also claimed about 20,000 Greeks had been forced out of their homes around Kyrenia.

THE TURKS issued a denial.

A spokesman said: ''The Turkish military authorities deny reports of killings and any other atrocities by Turkish troops in any area under Turkish occupation.''

THE SUN SAYS Shame on them
AS THE POLITICIANS vie to take credit for bringing a ''ceasefire'' to Cyprus, reports of appalling atrocities are filtering through from that tragic island. For, while the peace talks went on, Turkish soldiers were killing and terrorising innocent civilians. The behaviour of these troops will shock the world. As they are in Cyprus in the name of Turkey, that nation must immediately take action against the animals that wear its uniform...''

[Piratis]

And here is how it all started: (quoting from Library of Congress USA)

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

[Piratis]

The GC's will say one thing TC's will say another. It is important to take note of what people on the outside think of the situation.

So now that we saw what people on the outside think of the situation what is the conclusion?

My conclusion: If you have your own arguments, post them. If the only thing you know how to do is copy paste propaganda then don't waste your time. We can all do that with ease. It will add nothing to the content that already exists on the internet.

[MR-from-NG]

THE SUN

They only have good page 3 girls. I wouldn't bother reading crap from the sun.

[Piratis]

So you doubt the objectivity of what an outsider wrote mrfromng? How can this be possible??

Actually the sun article apart from its title it doesn't try to draw any conclusions. It just talks about facts.

Michael Stephen is the king of crap by the way.

The truth is that anybody outsider or insider can selectively take some facts, forget about some other facts, add some theories that suit him, a small lie here and there and voila: a result any way you want it. (or any way it was ordered)

A solution will not come with such things. A solution will come when lame excuses for the continuation of illegalities and human rights violations today stop and everybody accepts to leave the past behind for a better future for all of us.

[MR-from-NG]

Piratis,

You have discredited every single publication and journalist that disagreed with your opinions, that's including the Greek media and journalists. So I choose to rubbish the Sun, Whats the big deal.

If we were keeping a score on this you would be the undisputed champion. The score would be 100 - 1 to you.

Just out of interest, when was the last time the Sun or any other publication had a good thing to say about the ROC?

[Agios Amvrosios]

Mr Frogm

The reason for division is expansionism- one of your mate Hitler's favorite hobbies.

The following article appeared in The Sunday Times of London on 23 January 1977, written by the newspaper's Insight team.

"The terrible secrets of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus
The plight of Cyprus, with 40 per cent of the island still occupied by Turkish troops who invaded in the summer of 1974, is well known. But never before has the full story been told of what happened during and after the invasion. This article is based on the secret report of the European Commission of Human Rights. For obvious reasons, Insight has withdrawn the names of witnesses who gave evidence to the Commission.

INSIGHT

Killing
Relevant Article of Human Rights Convention: Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law.

Charge made by Greek Cypriots: The Turkish army embarked on a systematic course of mass killings of civilians unconnected with any war activity.

Turkish Defence: None offered, but jurisdiction challenged. By letter dated November 27, 1975, Turkey told the Commission it refused to accept the Greek Cypriot administration's right to go to the commission, "since there is no authority which can properly require the Turkish government to recognise against its will the legitimacy of a government which has usurped the powers of the state in violation of the constitution of which Turkey is a guarantor." No defence therefore offered to any other charges either.

Evidence given to the commission: Witness Mrs K said that on July 21, 1974, the second day of the Turkish invasion, she and a group of villagers from Elia were captured when, fleeing from bombardment, they tried to reach a range of mountains. All 12 men arrested were civilians. They were separated from the women and shot in front of the women, under the orders of a Turkish officer. Some of the men were holding children, three of whom were wounded.

Written statements referred to two more group killings: at Trimithi eyewitnesses told of the deaths of five men (two shepherds aged 60 and 70, two masons of 20 and 60, and a 19-year-old plumber). At Palekythron 30 Greek Cypriot soldiers being held prisoner were killed by their captors, according to the second statement.

Witness S gave evidence of two other mass killings at Palekythron. In each case, between 30 and 40 soldiers who had surrendered to the advancing Turks were shot. In the second case, the witness said, "the soldiers were transferred to the kilns of the village where they were shot dead and burnt in order not to leave details of what had happened."

Seventeen members of two neighbouring families, including 10 women and five children aged between two and nine were murdered in cold blood at Palekythron, reported witness H, a doctor. Further killing described in the doctor's notes, recording evidence related to him by patients (either eye-witnesses or victims) included:

Execution of eight civilians taken prisoner by Turkish soldiers in the area of Prastio, one day after the ceasefire on August 16, 1974.
Killing by Turkish soldiers of five unarmed Greek Cypriot soldiers who had sought refuge in a house at Voni.
Shooting of four women, one of whom survived by pretending she was dead.
Further evidence, taken in refugees camps and in the form of written statements, described killings of civilians in homes, streets or fields, as well as the killing of people under arrest or in detention. Eight statements described the killing of soldiers not in combat; five statements referred to a mass grave found in Dherynia.

Commission's verdict: By 14 votes to one, the commission considered there were "very strong indications" of violation of Article 2 and killings "committed on a substantial scale."

Rape
Relevant article: No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Charge by Greek Cypriots: Turkish troops were responsible for wholesale and repeated rapes of women of all ages from 12 to 71, sometimes to such an extent that the victims suffered haemorrhages or became mental wrecks. In some areas, enforced prostitution was practised, all women and girls of a village being collected and put into separate rooms in empty houses where they were raped repeatedly.

In certain cases members of the same family were repeatedly raped, some of them in front of their own children. In other cases women were brutally raped in public.

Rapes were on many occassions accompanied by brutalities such as violent biting of the victims causing severe wounding, banging their heads on the floor and wringing their throats almost to the point of suffocation. In some cases attempts to rape were followed by the stabbing or killing of the victims, victims included pregnant and mentally-retarded women.

Evidence to commission: Testimony of doctors C and H, who examined the victims. Eyewitnesses and hearsay witnesses also gave evidence, and the commission had before it written statements from 41 alleged victims.

Dr H said he had confirmed rape in 70 cases, including:

A mentally-retarded girl of 24 was raped in her house by 20 soldiers. When she started screaming they threw her from the second-floor window. She fractured her spine and was paralysed;
One day after their arrival at Voni, Turks took girls to a nearby house and raped them;
One woman from Voni was raped on three occassions by four persons each time. She became pregnant;
One girl, from Palekyhthrou, who was held with others in a house, was taken out at gunpoint and raped;
At Tanvu, Turkish soldiers tried to rape a 17-year-old schoolgirl. She resisted and was shot dead;
A woman from Gypsou told Dr H that 25 girls were kept by Turks at Marathouvouno as prostitutes.
Another witness said that his wife was raped in front of their children. Witness S told of 25 girls who complained to Turkish officers about being raped and were raped again by the officers. A man (name withheld) reported that his wife was stabbed in the neck while resisting rape. His grand-daughter, aged six, had been stabbed and killed by Turkish soldiers attempting to rape her.

A Red Cross witness said that in August 1974, while the island's telephones were still working, the Red Cross Society recieved calls from Palekyhthrou and Kaponti reporting rapes. The Red Cross also took care of 38 women released from Voni and Gypsou detention camps: all had been raped, some in front of their husbands and children. Others had been raped repeatedly, or put in houses frequented by Turkish soldiers.

These women were taken to Akrotiri hospital, in the British Sovereign Base Area, where they were treated. Three were found to be pregnant. Reference was also made to several abortions performed at the base.

Commission's verdict: By 12 votes to one the commission found "that the incidents of rape described in the cases referred to and regarded as established constitute 'inhuman treatment' and thus violations of Article 3 for which Turkey is responsible under the convention."

Torture
Relevant article: see above under Rape.

Charge by Greek-Cypriots: Hundreds of people, including children, women and pensioners, were victims of systematic torture and savage and humiliating treatment during their detention by the Turkish army. They were beaten, according to the allegations, sometimes to the extent of being incapacitated. Many were subjected to whipping, breaking of their teeth, knocking their heads against walls, beating with electrified clubs, stubbing of cigarettes on their skin, jumping and stepping on their chests an hands, pouring dirty liquids on them, piercing with bayonets, etc.

Many, it was said, were ill-treated to such an extent that they became mental and physical wrecks. The brutalities complained of reached their climax after the ceasefire agreements; in fact, most of the acts described were committed at a time when Turkish armed forces were not engaged in any war activities.

Evidence to Commission: Main witness was schoolteacher, one of 2,000 Greek Cypriot men deported to Turkey. He stated that he and his fellow detainees were repeatedly beaten after their arrest, on their way to Adana (in Turkey), in jail in Adana and in prison camp at Amasya.

On ship to Turkey - "That was another moment of terrible beating again. We were tied all the time. I lost sense of touch. I could not feel anything for about two or three months. Every time we asked for water or spoke we were being beaten."

Arriving at Adana - "...then, one by one, they led us to prisons, through a long corridor ... Going through that corridor was another terrible experience. There were about 100 soldiers from both sides with sticks, clubs and with their fists beating every one of us while going to the other end of the corridor .I was beaten at least 50 times until I reached the other end.

In Adana anyone who said he wanted to see a doctor was beaten. "Beating was on the agenda every day. There were one or two very good, very nice people, but they were afraid to show their kindness,as they told us."

Witness P spoke of:

A fellow prisoner who was kicked in the mouth. He lost several teeth "and his lower jaw came off in pieces."
A Turkish officer, a karate student, who exercised every day by hitting prisoners.
Fellow prisoners who were hung by the feet over the hole of a lavatory for hours.
A Turkish second lieutenant who used to prick all prisoners with a pin when they were taken into a yard.
Evidence from Dr H said that prisoners were in an emaciated condition on their return to Cyprus. On nine occasions he had found signs of wounds.

The doctor gave a general description of conditions in Adana and in detention camps in Cyprus (at Pavlides Garage and the Saray Prison in the Turkish quarter of Nicosia) as reported to him by former detainees. Food, he said, consisted of one-eighth of a loaf of bread a day, with occasional olives; there were two buckets of water and two mugs which were never cleaned, from which about 1,000 people had to drink; toilets were filthy, with faeces rising over the basins; floors ere covered faeces and urine; in jail in Adana prisoners were kept 76 to a cell with three towels between them and one block of soap per eight persons per month to wash themselves and their clothes.

One man, it was alleged, had to amputate his own toes with a razor blade as a consequence of ill-treatment. Caught in Achna with another man, they had been beaten up with hard objects. When he had asked for a glass of water he was given a glass full of urine. His toes were then stepped on until they became blue, swollen and eventually gangrenous. (The other man was said to have been taken to hospital in Nicosia, where he agreed to have his legs amputated. He did not survive the operation.)

According to witness S, "hundred of Greek Cypriots were beaten and dozens were executed. They have cut off their ears in some cases, like the case of Palekythro and Trahoni..." (verbatim record).

Verdict by commission: By 12 votes to one, the commission concluded that prisoners were in a number of cases physically ill-treated by Turkish soldiers. "These acts of ill-treatment caused considerable injuries and in at least one case, the death of the victim. By their severity they constitute 'inhuman treatment' in the sense of Article 3, for which Turkey is responsible under the convention."

Looting
Relevant article: Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions.

Charge by Greek Cypriots: In all Turkish-occupied areas, the Turkish army systematically looted houses and business premises of Greek Cypriots.

Evidence to the commission: Looting in Kyrenia was described by witness C: "...The first days of looting of the shops was done by the army, of heavy things like refrigerators, laundry machines, television sets" (verbatim record).

For the weeks after the invasion, he said, he had watched Turkish naval ships taking on board the looted goods.

Witness K, a barrister, described the pillage of Famagusta: "At two o'clock on organised, systematic, terrifying, shocking, unbelievable looting started... We heard the breaking of doors, some of them iron doors, smashing of glass, and we were waiting for them any minute to enter the house. This lasted for about four hours."

Written statements by eyewitnesses of looting were corroborated by several reports by the secretary-general of the United Nations.

Verdict of the commission: The commission accepted that looting and robbery on an extensive scale, by Turkish troops and Turkish Cypriots, had taken place. By 12 votes to one, it established that there had been deprivation of possessions of Greek Cypriots on a large scale.

Other charges
On four counts: the commission concluded that Turkey had also violated an Article of the Convention asserting the right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence. The commission also decided that Turkey was continuing to violate the Article by refusing to allow the return of more than 170,000 Greek Cypriot refugees to their homes in the north.

On three counts: the commission said Turkey had violated two more articles that specify that the rights and freedoms in the Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground, and that anyone whose rights are violated "shall have an effective remedy before a national authority.""

[lysi]

mrfromng, tell us all if your brave turkish army are innocent of war crimes commited against cypriots, armenians, kurds and even turks ?