Cyprus-Forum.com

[PEACE]

Cyprus is separated into 2 states, in northern state of 18% and one southern state of 82% of land.
TCs will all be given the change to live in the northern state. Even if all GC refugees return to this northern state the TCs will still be the great majority there. As long as the TCs feel that they need to be separated from GCs most of them will choose to live in the northern state and the northern state will remain TC controlled.

Sorry Piratis,but it was the worst solution method that i have ever heard.


Population-Land solution. Will we remain always %18 forewer?
Do we have %18 land all over the Cyprus or more? You know Turkish Cypriot properties are all over the island.Is the total %18?

You'll accept that we can live in Besparmak Mountains ? You'll return back to your properties to %18 part and where we'll live? You don't think that we won't have place to live after these. So,this solution is really imaginary and illogical.Population increases but land remains constant. That's another point.

[PEACE]

I'm not even discussing if we are %18 How do you know that? You made a census lately in North?

[andri_cy]

I think that all people should live wherever they want. why do we have to be separated? if GC refugees want to go back to their homes and TC's want to go back to the south why the heck not? As far as the whole land thing goes, I dont know about the %'s . I know that in the town where I come from, a lot of the land belonged to TC's because they invested in land. It maybe wasnt as much as Gc's but it was close to 30% . I am not saying GC's shouldnt have their land back or compensation for it but the whole % I dont know how that would be fair both ways.

[PEACE]

I'm not rejecting the returning of refugees back but i reject both returning all and have voting right in TCs federal zone.As a summary i don't want a solution where we are minority and don't have any affect in decision mechanism.As you know in Republic Of Cyprus people were living mixed but elections were seperated and many other protecting mechanisms that protects our rights from GC's unilateral decisions.

[cypezokyli]

I'm not rejecting the returning of refugees back but i reject both returning all and have voting right in TCs federal zone.As a summary i don't want a solution where we are minority and don't have any affect in decision mechanism.As you know in Republic Of Cyprus people were living mixed but elections were seperated and many other protecting mechanisms that protects our rights from GC's unilateral decisions.

dont worry peace. a solution can fix both concerns. many refugees return , but they vote for a gc (lets say) president. it can be solved with relaxing the bizonality idea a bit, without reducing the communal rights of tcs.

agreed ?

[Piratis]

Will we remain always %18 forewer?

Who knows. What we know already is that GCs are 82%. If you are not willing to accept 18% because at a future time you might be more than 18% then why do you expect GCs to accept less than 82% when they are already 82%? An 82% -18% land split is only fair.

Do we have %18 land all over the Cyprus or more? You know Turkish Cypriot properties are all over the island.Is the total %18?

Many times the official figures have been posted in this forum that show that TC land ownership was actually even less than 18%. In Cyprus such records were kept very precisely since the British rule. Now some people are trying without any basis to convince us that TCs were the rich land lords of Cyprus.

You don't think that we won't have place to live after these.

I already explained how TCs can get the land: Be subsidized to buy land from GCs that will voluntarily want to sell (and there will be a lot) and exchange their properties elsewhere with state property in that 18%.

Again I repeat that what you called "Piratis Plan" was just one example when I was answering a question. I didn't say it should be like this. It could be in a different way. If you have a better way of how we can achieve federation (that you want) without violating our human rights (you have no right to ask for such thing) then tell us.

I'm not rejecting the returning of refugees back but i reject both returning all and have voting right in TCs federal zone.

Do you know any other federation were the residents of a state are denied their right to vote? Refugees have the human right to return to their properties and the right to vote. you have no right to demand violations of their human rights.

There is no piratis plan (not a recent one at least). What there is are some principles:
- human rights for all
- Democracy
- no racist discriminations

And within these universally accepted principles to find a solution that will accommodate the needs and desires of both communities as much as possible. (e.g. the desire of TCs for a separate state).

[Sotos]

Why is the worst solution plan? Any plan that is based on human rights and not just the demands of Turkey is bad?

[stuballstu]

Piratis

Fair play to you at least forwarding a suggestion which makes for different reading other than the "my dads willie is bigger than your dads willie" posts

When you moving to your new office in New York???

[Piratis]

stuballstu, as I said many times I am more than willing to discuss the future free of the old animosity with the only purpose of creating a better Cyprus for all.

Unfortunately for some people these forums are not about building a better future for all but about justifying their actions in their attempt to create something better only for themselves.

This is why I always say that respect is a prerequisite to find a solution. Without respect any future negotiations will have the same result as always (=nothing) and Cyprus will remain exclusively dependent on the balance of power (of which we have very little control).

Those that think that blackmail is the way of solving problems should think about it again. Blackmail can only lead to "loss-loss" for both sides like it was the case so far. Respect will eventually lead to trust and a "win-win" solution for all Cypriots.

When you moving to your new office in New York???

I wouldn't It seems to me that the UN were not able to stand above the interests of the powerful and serve humanity as they should. People around the world are still left to fight alone and hope that their interests will align with the interests of the big and powerful. The fact that today we have only one super power doesn't help either. If we had a world with 3-4 opposing powers then things could be better.

[stuballstu]

This is why I always say that respect is a prerequisite to find a solution. Without respect any future negotiations will have the same result as always (=nothing) and Cyprus will remain exclusively dependent on the balance of power (of which we have very little control).

Those that think that blackmail is the way of solving problems should think about it again. Blackmail can only lead to "loss-loss" for both sides like it was the case so far. Respect will eventually lead to trust and a "win-win" solution for all Cypriots.

Piratis

Trust will only be built up over time, with trust comes a higher level of respect

stuballstu, as I said many times I am more than willing to discuss the future free of the old animosity with the only purpose of creating a better Cyprus for all.

Unfortunately for some people these forums are not about building a better future for all but about justifying their actions in their attempt to create something better only for themselves

Piratis

Please take this post in the context it is meant as "constructive criticism".

While i hear what you are saying from your post above why do you constantly refer to ethnic cleansing and 200,000 GC refugees on every post? Is it not true that TC's had this forced upon them too, firstly be EOKA and then forced partition? GC's were not the only people affected. No one is asking for you or anyone else to forget about refugees, however posting the same information on every thread does show a little hypocrosy on your part regurgutating old posts.

As i said please take it the context on which the above observation is made and not as a "dig" at you. At least you have gave a solution a lot of thought, it may not be perfect or work but at least you not sitting on your arse doing nothing except slagging Brits, Turks, USA etc etc like others on this and other forums.