Cyprus-Forum.com

[negotiator]

Forgive me for my ignorance but does anyone ever feel like the CYPRUS ISSUE will never be solved due to netiher sides wanting to negotiate in any manner what so ever. Over 3 decades and the fight still continues over who belongs there can it not just be forgotten and allow both sides independence of one another and move on.

[Rude Gal]

If only...but some people just can't move on from past and deal with today's realities...A settlement can only come from compromise (WIN-WIN) and if no compromise comes, partition is going to be permanent.

When all of Cyprus wakes up to this reality, it may make a settlement more likely. But until then, where GCs think they can push for total win, then no change...And TCs are now realising this and may go towards TRNC recognition, so if their Govt changes in few years and moves towards this policy, then makes settlement harder again....

Oh, the inevitability of it all...

[Moonage Daydream]

I agree with you, neither side really wants to really negotiate for a solution.
32 (or 43?) years of separation between GC and TC has clearly enhanced the divisions between Cypriots, and other issues (land, settlers etc) are a reflection and a symptom of that division.

I just feel that for many the division along the Attila line suiits their own vested interests. Many GCs have got rich on the back of the tourist and property boom. Many TCs yearn for a better economic future, but fear a GC dominated united Cyprus.

The only hope is a gradual coming together of younger people form both sides who did not live through 1974 and 1963, and reject the folk memories of their families and the biased teaching in schools. Impossible? I don't think so, though like East and West Germany, or Flanders and Wallonia I think the divisions will outliv political union.

I'm sure we'll get the usual replies from the zealots on both sides blaming the other for past history - I just hope some can move on and look forward not back. Maybe the recent visit by GC and TC politicians to Rizorkarpasso/Dipkarpaz shows the way.

[Rude Gal]

Moonage Daydream - what a lovely name (tho calling Green Line Atilla line not so PC). I just had to share Lennon with ya:

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

[Piratis]

A settlement can only come from compromise (WIN-WIN) and if no compromise comes, partition is going to be permanent.

Yes, a solution can only came from a win-win compromise. But if it is trully win-win, then why you blackmail us with partition? If we would "win" as well then why wouldn't we want to this by ourselves?

The fact is that you have illegally occupied 1/3rd of Cyprus and now what you expect is to be rewarded for your victory in the war by gaining on the loss of GCs.

Unfortunately when the Turks talk about "win-win" and "compromises" what they really mean is giving back part of what they stole and receive something in return on top of that.

It is like if I go to Rude girls home, steal 2000 pounds, and then I "compromise" to give her back 500 pounds if she accepts to give me her LCD TV (which worths 1000) in return!

The win-win can not come with blackmails. The Turkish troops should leave from Cyprus and the 1960 constitution (which was the best ever for any minority in the whole world) should be restored. Everybody, TCs and GCs will get the 100% of what they legally should have. Then GCs and TCs can sit and discuss without any blackmails about changes that will lead to this win-win solution. If this "win-win" exists then why would anybody reject it?

[Rude Gal]

P, partition is reality. And it's permanence is a strong possibility if a deal can't be done. Not nice for unification camp, but then they got to work harder to get the deal...

As for illegally occupying: You say TCs got 1/3 land, I say GCs got 100% recognised (but in my eyes) illegal RoC government. And don't be coming back with rest of world, UN resolutions, blah blah. For decades, Govts, UN etc accepted South Africa & apartheid, but didn't make it right!

Size has nothing to do with rights. If it was down to size, Cyprus would have 0.0000000001% voting at UN, EU etc. We didn't accept a minority status before and we ain't now. ANd we ain't in 1960! Hello, it's 2006!!!!

So get with the times P! Bad things have happened and the consequences are there for all to see. Harsh, good/bad - who cares? Just deal with the reality of NOW.

We in 2 zones and it will be for some time to come. The question is, are we aiming to move closer together this century or will some time in next millenia do? Cos if you bang on like you always do, then know you're people will be looking @ a 2 state solution.

So figure out a WIN WIN based on 2006 realities. Anything else is a waste of time...

[Piratis]

As for illegally occupying: You say TCs got 1/3 land, I say GCs got 100% recognised (but in my eyes) illegal RoC government. And don't be coming back with rest of world, UN resolutions, blah blah. For decades, Govts, UN etc accepted South Africa & apartheid, but didn't make it right!

GCs got 100% recognition because you insist on illegality. Give us our land back and take your share of recognition as part of RoC. However it seems that you want everything. You want yours yours, and ours yours again!!

Interesting to choose South Africa and apartheid as your example. Apartheid is exactly what you want to achieve: The separation of Cypriots based on their race, where each citizen would receive different rights and voting rights based on their race! And in South Africa I don't think they performed ethnic cleansing ... you insist in the year 2006 for something worst that apartheid!!

Size has nothing to do with rights. If it was down to size, Cyprus would have 0.0000000001% voting at UN, EU etc. We didn't accept a minority status before and we ain't now. ANd we ain't in 1960! Hello, it's 2006!!!!

Exactly, it is 2006, apartheid is over. All citizens of a country should be equal without racists discriminations. UN and EU are not countries. Do you know of any country were its citizens are separated based on their race having different rights and voting powers?

So get with the times P! Bad things have happened and the consequences are there for all to see. Harsh, good/bad - who cares? Just deal with the reality of NOW.

The reality now is that we have an illegal occupation. We are dealing with it the best we can and we will continue to do so.

We in 2 zones and it will be for some time to come. The question is, are we aiming to move closer together this century or will some time in next millenia do? Cos if you bang on like you always do, then know you're people will be looking @ a 2 state solution.

We are aiming at a united country, you are aiming at partition, like you have always done.

So figure out a WIN WIN based on 2006 realities. Anything else is a waste of time...

Win win is Cyprus to become a normal country like all the rest democratic countries. As I said many times you can choose the constitution of any other EU country or even Turkey. I leave the choice up to you, I am not picky at all.
Unfortunately you do not want the "win - win" that exists in all other countries. You want to gain on the loss of GCs by forcing in Cyprus a disguised partition, something that exists nowhere else in the whole world and would make Greek Cypriots second class human beings.

So if it is not "win - win" it will be "loss - loss" (like it has been so far).

[cypezokyli]

Rude gal wrote:

P, partition is reality. And it's permanence is a strong possibility if a deal can't be done. Not nice for unification camp, but then they got to work harder to get the deal...

Oh, the inevitability of it all...

my answer ?

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

dont think that song spoke about realities rudegal.
i guess you should choose sides : give dream a chance or not

[Mills Chapman]

Good observation on that, cypezokyli.

[PEACE]

The win-win can not come with blackmails. The Turkish troops should leave from Cyprus and the 1960 constitution (which was the best ever for any minority in the whole world) should be restored. Everybody, TCs and GCs will get the 100% of what they legally should have. Then GCs and TCs can sit and discuss without any blackmails about changes that will lead to this win-win solution. If this "win-win" exists then why would anybody reject it?

Piratis,you are funny.If Turkish troops leave from Cyprus and 1960 constitution restored think what happens! A solution! So what are you talking about after these we can start negotations to make a win-win solution? After 1960 constitution restored and all troops' number decreased to constitutional number it means a solution is established and its name is 1960 Republic Of Cyprus.After this point noone can force you to accept anything that is our benefit.[/quote][/url]