Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis,you are funny.If Turkish troops leave from Cyprus and 1960 constitution restored think what happens! A solution! So what are you talking about after these we can start negotations to make a win-win solution? After 1960 constitution restored and all troops' number decreased to constitutional number it means a solution is established and its name is 1960 Republic Of Cyprus.After this point noone can force you to accept anything that is our benefit

Exactly my point.

The 1960 constitution was in fact vary favorable to the TCs. Do you know many 18% communities that have their language as an official language of the state? Do you know any other small community like TCs that would be given so many veto powers? The 18% TCs according to the 1960 constitution will also have 30% of the governmental positions etc.

So in fact the 1960 constitution written by the British (not Greek Cypriots) is very favorable to the TCs. Still you insist on illegalities and blackmails to force us to accept something that it is even more to your benefit and to our loss.

After the end of the occupation and the return to the 1960 constitution were both TCs and GCs would get the 100% of what they legally should have, then we could sit and discuss on how we can improve this constitution not by one side forcing the other to accept something, but by making changes that will be better for both. This is what WIN-WIN means.

One example:
The GCs would accept that TCs can have a separate, autonomous in its internal afairs, area of 18% (as much as their population) were they would be the majority, and in return TCs would give up their veto powers and the 30% of governmental positions would drop to 18%.

This is just an example that demonstrates of how the 1960 constitution can change in a way that no side wins or losses. Unfortunately some TCs think that the solution should be one were the GCs should be forced to give and TCs should be the ones to take.

[bakala]

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The Cyprus issue will be decided in Europe


Cyprus future will be affected by Turkey and EEC policy towards Turkey

The future acceptance of Turkey into the EEC is extremely desirable to Europe; it would be the first stride into the Middle East, for the EEC. America would welcome it too as a potential ally for influence over the Middle East.
Turkey whether you like it or not, does present the desirable face of Islam. And with its geographical position it blurs the religious and ethnic divide between Europe and the Middle East, Geographically it also controls the entrance to the black sea and access to Russia

Turkey waits at the door of Europe to be accepted as a partner, there are some political parties in Turkey that call for Turkey to look to the east for friendship and alliance, God help Europe if they ever get in power, because then we could have the most extreme face of Islam at the back door of Europe and this, would never be acceptable to either Europe or America.

The way Europe treat Turkey at present could swing Turkish Politics either east or west and the political power mongers in Europe know this, they want Turkey in Europe but are haggling for political reforms in Turkey so they are acceptable for membership. That is the state of play at present.

Turkey holds a powerful card in its hand called the TRNC, Turkey will get into Europe whether it plays the Cyprus card or not,

An independent Cyprus or a divided Cyprus are both (unofficially) acceptable to Europe, A Cyprus dominated by either Turkey or Greece is not.

This is why I believe that the TRNC will be released from isolation on humanitarian grounds as a prelude to a federation of states, the south under the influence of Greece and the TRNC to Turkey with an agreed date for acceptance of Turkey as a member of the EEC

The land ownership issue will be a small obstacle that will be overcome and the fact the someone called Fred Papadopilus has 4 donums of land in lapta that he can’t live in wont stop the intention to bring Turkey into Europe,

The land issue will be settled like all minor issues with money, people’s greed can always be relied on to settle minor affairs, To the original owner who cannot live on the land of his ansestors its the whole world

in the context of European and world politics the Cyprus land issue is small potatoes, that’s reality



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[bakala]

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A single government in Cyprus today made up of Greek and Turkish Cypriots would never be able to pass a law or make a resolution because they would continually veto and cancel each other out. Sooner or later Enosis would raise its head again and we would be back to 1963, I am sure everyone agrees that there are already too many graveyards in Cyprus,

The normal everyday Cypriot wears his Greek- ness and his Turkish- ness as a sort of separate nationality, neither prepared to give up his own for the sake of unity.

If the Greek Cypriots insist on being Greek Cypriots before being just a Cypriot then they should settle for partition for the sake of the next generation, the same goes for the Turkish Cypriots.

Those Cypriots who are true Cypriots first, would be able to please themselves where they live and under which government,

There are a few Greek Cypriots that will vehemently oppose partition because they have a potential claim for land in the TRNC and feel that the claim would disappear with partition; those people are more interested in their petty donum of land than they are in the island or its future.

With two federal states freely trading with each other the populations will begin to bleed into each other, they will start to participate in sport and entertainment and will benefit from each others culture, its difficult to hate someone who you do business or compete in honest sport with,

At least though not an ideal situation, it would be a start and could guarantee and end to the living on the brink of conflict that is so destructive.

The two leaders need to lean across the negotiating table and shake hands, its what the population north and south want to do anyway



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[Piratis]

bakala, ethnic cleansing can not be the solution. If as you claim, the two communities can not live together, then would you argue that the "solution" could also be the ethnic cleansing of the less that 140.000 Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus? Or ethnically cleansing 200.000 Greek Cypriots is OK and the "right solution", but ethnically cleansing far less Turkish Cypriots is not OK? Are Turkish Cypriots maybe of higher race?

Ethnic cleansing can not be the solution. Anybody that claims this is nothing less than racist. The solution is one united country were the human and democratic rights of everybody are respected without racist discriminations. Cyprus can function just like all other multi-ethnic countries in the whole world. The examples are numerous. The answer is that for the state all people are equal citizens and beyond that every citizen can choose his own language and religion.

The reasons that we people are separated into Greek/Turkish Cypriots is that this is the way the Ottomans separated people (Muslim/Christians) the British continued this tradition and then they forced this separation in the RoC constidution. Now that apartheid is over even in South Africa, those racist separations should become part of the past in Cyprus as well.

[bakala]

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Piratis

What you seek a united Cyprus has been tried and failed at the cost of hundreds if not thousands of dead Cypriots, Greek and Turkish. Any government trying to represent Turkish and Greek Cypriots is doomed to failure because of the refusal on both parties to forgo their Greek ness or Turkish ness for just being Cypriots.
After the 1960 1974 events you are not going to get a second chance at enosis for the whole island

At present the Turkish Cypriots have no government representation in the ROC, this is being recognised in Europe and is unacceptable by any European standards

Cyprus is heading for a federal partnership whether you like it or not, in fact it is a reality now, the final act to make it official is recognition of the TRNC,
This push for recognition is gaining support all over Europe; it has gained a new impetus because of the ROC opposition to the UN Plan

What you want mate, is a democratic government that dominates the Turkish Cypriots. Would you accept a democratic government if the Greek Cypriots were a minority?
I doubt it very much.

Your whole philosophy on the Cyprus problem is driven by the land issue and your personal gain or loss, You wear the cloak of a fighter for democracy and human rights but under the cloak a uniform of a nationalist extremist , anyone opposing your views is accused of crimes against Humanity, being crooks, or openly supporting an illegal regime,

Your political views are limited to slices of history that suit your extreme view, you cant get away from the past, That’s why you will never be able to contribute to a solution for the future, Its extremists that continue to divide people and resist solutions. The future solution will come from a more tolerant people, a group that would never accept you as a member.

Give me one single reason why the TRNC shouldn’t be recognised as an independent republic with its own Government whose independence is guaranteed by the only people it can trust Turkey. Try and tell me without resorting to your old worn out quotes about past crimes ect.

The land in the north at present belongs to the TRNC that’s reality, today’s reality the future for Cyprus is pretty predictable, the fact that it isn’t acceptable to a few lone extremist’s wont alter its course,

In the future a multicultural society will develop as more and more Europeans arrive to live and invest on the island, as the Cypriots absorb the cultures of the European migrants arriving the differences between the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots will fade into history, Cyprus will be united one day inside a Future greater Europe . but unfortunately it will be generations into the future.

In the meantime i will settle for the Cypriots and the Cyprus of Today,

On both sides of the Border i found a generous and hospitable people, happy kind and considerate and so easy to live with,

Such a pity they don’t practice it on each other



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[andri_cy]

In the meantime i will settle for the Cypriots and the Cyprus of Today,

On both sides of the Border i found a generous and hospitable people, happy kind and considerate and so easy to live with,

Such a pity they don’t practice it on each other

It really is a pity...

[bakala]

andri_cy

i mean every word Andri, i am not taking the piss

If both sides can be so hospitable kind and friendly towards me a Guest, why not to each other ? it puzzles me

[bakala]

no one will ever convince me that the ordinary common or garden Cypriot, be he greek or Turkish, would want to kill the other. or loot his house or steal his beasts,
none of the ones i met would anyway and ive talked to plenty on both sides of the border.

Thats why i am convinced that the ones who started it all were the guys in power at the top and a few silly extremists,

Its the same people in power who keep the Cypriots apart

[Rude Gal]

bakala, your long spiel above.... Reality check supreme!

On both sides of the Border i found a generous and hospitable people, happy kind and considerate and so easy to live with,

Such a pity they don’t practice it on each other

I hear you, but don't be so sad. For decades the 2 sides didn't even speak! Now we got the border down, we connecting, understanding (well, maybe not always, but better we fight on this forum than out on the streets!) and it's only a matter of time before it's love and not hate that spreads. We Cypriots can't avoid each other, on the island, on this Forum, in the big wide world. There's enough goodness to go around and drown out all the negativity!

I go to bed inspired and happy that all will be well in the end...

[sadik]

Piratis,you are funny.If Turkish troops leave from Cyprus and 1960 constitution restored think what happens! A solution! So what are you talking about after these we can start negotations to make a win-win solution? After 1960 constitution restored and all troops' number decreased to constitutional number it means a solution is established and its name is 1960 Republic Of Cyprus.After this point noone can force you to accept anything that is our benefit

Exactly my point.

The 1960 constitution was in fact vary favorable to the TCs. Do you know many 18% communities that have their language as an official language of the state? Do you know any other small community like TCs that would be given so many veto powers? The 18% TCs according to the 1960 constitution will also have 30% of the governmental positions etc.

So in fact the 1960 constitution written by the British (not Greek Cypriots) is very favorable to the TCs. Still you insist on illegalities and blackmails to force us to accept something that it is even more to your benefit and to our loss.

After the end of the occupation and the return to the 1960 constitution were both TCs and GCs would get the 100% of what they legally should have, then we could sit and discuss on how we can improve this constitution not by one side forcing the other to accept something, but by making changes that will be better for both. This is what WIN-WIN means.

One example:
The GCs would accept that TCs can have a separate, autonomous in its internal afairs, area of 18% (as much as their population) were they would be the majority, and in return TCs would give up their veto powers and the 30% of governmental positions would drop to 18%.

This is just an example that demonstrates of how the 1960 constitution can change in a way that no side wins or losses. Unfortunately some TCs think that the solution should be one were the GCs should be forced to give and TCs should be the ones to take.

Piratis, how do you plan to achieve a Turkish Cypriot majority in this area? Do you mean that some Greek Cypriots will not be allowed to return in order to create this area of TC majority?