Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

I dont know where to start from regarding the so many misconceptions of bakala. Should I start from his obsession regarding the Suez Canal? Which Canal happens to be in Egypt not in Cyprus? Which happens to be 100 miles away from the nearest shore of Cyprus and separated by 100 miles of sea from here? Which can be controlled ONLY when one controls Egypt and the other neighbouring countries and NOT Cyprus?

Regarding the period of 1963-1967 when the intercommunal fightings between the GCs and TCs happened: There was a dual objective then: Enosis for the GCs, Taksim for the TCs. Enosis did not necessarily require any violation of any rights of the TCs, nor any killing nor any confiscation of their properties nor any ethnic cleansing. TCs however thought that any of these was very propable. Taksim required that the TCs take by force a part of Cyprus, do ethnic cleansing against the GCs, take their properties, move there and declare another independent state.Exactly what happened in 1974 btw. It is a fact that some paramilitary GC forces were attacking organised TMT TC forces, not for Enosis per se, but to destroy their organising of Taksim, which like I said required something like the 1974 events to materialise.

In this fighting Greece did its part using paramilitary as well as state forces (Grivas, ex-Eokas etc) Turkey used the TC villagers by arming them and creating a situation of numerous small states within a state that would later unite to create partition. This is the situation in which innocent TC people were killed between 1963 and 1967. Generally the TCs suffered more during that period, but certainly they were not so innocent themselves either.
The 1974 invasion was simply the completion of what was left incomplete by Turkey in 1968.

[bakala]

Pyrpolizer
of course you havent looked at a map recently.

The western approaches to the Suez are dominated by Cyprus, i am well aware that Egypt at present as gaurdians
( lets not forget it was built by a frenchman ) controll the traffic through it the passage of shipping is also protected by international agreement , but that hardly matters if an hostile power can stop anyone from going in from the west or getting out from the east. Cyprus strategicaly in hostile hands could shut the door on the Suez canal its a strategic fact. and a fact that europe and America take very seriously,

The western seaboard of the USA send masses of shipping via the atlantic route with trade stoppovers via the med and on to the indian ocean, lots of mediterainian traffic passes through it too, especialy down the black sea from russian ports

The suez canal like the entrance to the black sea and the panama canal have enormous tactical value,


Apart from this about the canal

the rest of your post reminds me of the recycled drivel based on you did this we didnt do that philosophy of Piratis and co
just another post trying to justify one side killing the other, where really there cant be any justification.



,

[bakala]

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The dream of unification is the ideal solution for those who believe in it.
For those who don’t it’s a nightmare, The possibility to live as one nation of Cypriots the period of 1960 1974 will get in the way. Until that period is consigned to the past by both sides it will continue to get in the way, the wounds will not heal because there are extremists, who continue to pick at them,

Piratis is a prime example; to him his own personal gain or loss is far more important than the greater good for all. He will never understand that compromise is different to defeat,

When people who cannot debate without resorting to the slices of history that suit their cause, At the same time denying historical fact because it doesn’t support their argument, Sensible debate is replaced by tit for tat insults that keep the fires burning.

The status of the island now is divided unless anyone disagrees
Trying to push two reluctant and ethnically different people together, is like putting a leopard in the same cage as a tiger, There was trouble last time (1960) and there would be trouble again. Unless the tiger looses its stripes and the leopard its spots there will continue to be trouble.

The ROC is tied to Greece it doesn’t matter how you argue any other way, Enosis has already happened unofficially, Greece nods its head and an ROC election candidate campaigns for government among other candidates that have also had the nod of approval, Greece pulls the strings of government in the ROC now, more than it ever did before.

The people of the TRNC don’t trust the Greeks, for some reason I can’t comprehend, they don’t see them like I do, all warm and cuddly. (Sardonic Humour)
The people of the TRNC will never accept a government dominated by Greece that’s an option that’s not even for consideration.
Greece sees enosis for the whole island and nothing less will do. They have enosi’fied half of it and want the other half.

The people of the TRNC now see unification as a lose lose situation confirmed by the recent poll that threw out the UN plan.
Both sides proclaim peace and unity at any cost, what they really mean is at any cost to the other side,
Politicians are great at talking for days on end and not really saying anything, its called gobbledegook. It’s a full time very well paid job for them and they are experts at it.

Unification will come one day in the future but only when the leopard has lost its spots and the tiger its stripes, trouble is one guy keeps painting new spots and another new stripes. Those are the guys in power who don’t want peace. it might cost them a bit of their power.


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[Piratis]

Piratis is a prime example; to him his own personal gain or loss is far more important than the greater good for all. He will never understand that compromise is different to defeat,

You are shameless really.
I have no personal gain or loss apart from the violations my rights as a citizen of the Republic of Cyprus.

Bakala, who "bought" stolen Greek Cypriot property in the occupied areas , has adopted the 100% of the Turkish propaganda and he is now trying to promote the illegal "trnc" to secure his own investment and personally gain from the loss of our refugees.

He knows that if the Cyprus problem is solved in a way that human rights violations end he will personally not only lose his illegal investment but probably be judged for his criminal actions.

When people who cannot debate without resorting to the slices of history that suit their cause, At the same time denying historical fact because it doesn’t support their argument, Sensible debate is replaced by tit for tat insults that keep the fires burning.

And this is said by bakala, who the only part of history that he knows is the tiny slice between 1963-1974 (because thats the only part that is included in the Turkish propaganda - his only source) Can a person be more hypocrite than bakala?

Bakala, I told you again and I will tell you before: No matter how much you tried, you will lose the investment you have made in the occupied Cyprus and you will be personally by punished for your criminal immoral acts against the Cypriot people.

[MR-from-NG]

Bakala, I told you again and I will tell you before: No matter how much you tried, you will lose the investment you have made in the occupied Cyprus and you will be personally by punished for your criminal immoral acts against the Cypriot people.

Piratis,

You talk about human rights and all that crap. What about Bakala's rights? This man has/may buy a property in the North. If he does he would have bought a house with TRNC title deeds. TRNC officials have been giving assurances to outside buyers/investors that there is nothing to worry about buying ex Greek property.

So how can you be so heartless and ruthless as to suggest this man will one day lose his life savings and the dream home he invested in and will face criminal charges.

These are issues that will be dealt with at government level, you and I both know that the likes of Bakala have nothing to fear, they will 99.99999999999% keep their property and will not be defending themselves in any court as criminals.

You are making a big issue of the situation which cant be very good for your health, take it easy mate or you'll end up having a heart attack.

[Sotos]

You talk about human rights and all that crap. What about Bakala's rights?

I agree. We have to write him his rights. Even criminals have them.

Bakala, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.

[MR-from-NG]

Bakala, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.

The day I see Bakala defending himself in court for buying property in the north I will do the following.

I WILL REATTACH THE SKIN BACK ONTO MY SIRCUMSISED DICK, I WILL CHANGE MY NAME BY DEEDPOLL TO NICOS SAMPSON AND CHANGE MY RELIGION TO GREEK ORTODOX.
That's a public promise.

[andri_cy]

I am not sure that the GReek Orthodox Church would welcome someone by the last name of sampson but ok...

[andri_cy]

If he does he would have bought a house with TRNC title deeds. TRNC officials have been giving assurances to outside buyers/investors that there is nothing to worry about buying ex Greek property.

So how can you be so heartless and ruthless as to suggest this man will one day lose his life savings and the dream home he invested in and will face criminal charges.

TRNC titles? I dont think those are recognizable by anyone but TRNC. MAybe that's not fair maybe it is. But I am not sure that reassurances by TRNC that everything is going to be ok is enough really cause THEY themselves dont really know what the future holds. I am not for or against all this I am just stating my toughts. If you like the north so much, I would suggest you go ahead and buy a property that has a valid RoC TC title(because there are lots of them).That way you are in the safe side. Because it can sound heartless and ruthless to you, but the truth is there could be a day where you DO lose everything you put in as an investment unless the TRNC or Turkey itself is prepared to give you your money back. Bottom line is, that if he bought something that he doesnt have a valid title for and it is his dream home and he knew the dangers, he made a gamble. Is it fair? I dont know. But the truth is he knows the risks. Would he be charged? I dont know I am nota legal advisor. But if there are so many properties being sold that have the legal titles for them, why not pay the extra penny and be safe?

[stuballstu]

Andri

TRNC titles? I dont think those are recognizable by anyone but TRNC. MAybe that's not fair maybe it is. But I am not sure that reassurances by TRNC that everything is going to be ok is enough really cause THEY themselves dont really know what the future holds. I am not for or against all this I am just stating my toughts. If you like the north so much, I would suggest you go ahead and buy a property that has a valid RoC TC title(because there are lots of them).That way you are in the safe side. Because it can sound heartless and ruthless to you, but the truth is there could be a day where you DO lose everything you put in as an investment unless the TRNC or Turkey itself is prepared to give you your money back. Bottom line is, that if he bought something that he doesnt have a valid title for and it is his dream home and he knew the dangers, he made a gamble. Is it fair? I dont know. But the truth is he knows the risks. Would he be charged? I dont know I am nota legal advisor. But if there are so many properties being sold that have the legal titles for them, why not pay the extra penny and be safe?

Andri

Some good, reasoned points. There is no doubt that there is some foreign owners of ex GC lands in the north with TRNC deeds however why is it when someone says that the own a house in the North that most GC's assume that it is a GC refugee's land? There is plenty of Turkish title houses and land for sale, a little more expensive, however still cheaper than the south side of the green line.

As i have said repeatedly the longer it takes for a solutions the less likely refugees will have of returning. There is very little chance of any settlement making provision for knocking down housing developments on a GC refugees land. The longer it takes the more houses get built.