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Cyprus invasion.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:12 pm

as i understand it tcklim means that anything prior to 1960 isnt relevent to the cyprus problem today and i agree with tcklim

Of course you agree. We already said: Everything before 1960 is too old, everything after 1974 is excused.
This means the 10s of thousands of people that the Turks have butchered and the 200.000 refugees and human rights violations against CGs that continue until today are either 1)too old or 2) excused.

So all we are left is the 1960-1974 period. Now take out from that period the crimes of TCs against GCs during the inter communal conflict.

Conclusion: The Turks are angels, the GCs are evils that deserve their human rights to be violated and their land stolen.

Right bakala?
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Postby bakala » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:13 pm

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Piratis
hard as it is to believe, the future of the Cypriots is not totally in the hands of the Cypriots, there are outside political forces at work I know its not nice or even right but its true none the less

The ideal situation for the Cypriots is for everyone else to leave the island and let the Cypriots work it out for themselves, but the result would be a new civil war with outside influences vying for control again. We would be back to square one and the only difference would be bigger and newer graveyards.


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Postby bakala » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:24 pm

No i don’t think its right Piratis
i am totally against any violations of Human Rights.

The Charter of Human Rights is one of mans greatest creations. If not THE greatest
Penned by men of great wisdom and even greater foresight.

I would advise you to read it like I have
It has great bits in it like
No one can be denied a nationality or the right to change his nationality.
The TRNC people are denied right now the right to exist as a people isn’t that against the charter?
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Postby Kifeas » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:25 pm

Bakala, for you the Cyprus problem might be just like any other issue or subject which you may want to deal with, so that you pass your time making fun. However, for some other people like me and many other Cypriots, it is a very important issue relating to our very human rights, peace and our very survival and existence in our country. This section of the forum requires that you contact your posts with the outmost seriousness and respect for those reading and participating, and certainly it is not a place and an issue which you should approach with the aim of having fun and /or carry out senseless propaganda. It is not a football team fan's forum or a stadium, where you may throw slogans so that you will have fun with your buddies. I would like to ask you to try and be more serious in the way you write and /or express your views, otherwise I will personally ask the administrator to block you out of this section, and if he doesn’t wish to do so, then I will personally stop from posting any longer, since I find your overall attitude quite arrogant, provocative and offensive.
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Postby bakala » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:37 pm

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Kifeas
i don’t think the Cyprus issue is fun or something to be taken less than seriously
The Cyprus issue and its solution has the potential to divide Europe or cement it together. It also has the potential to bring into Europe a powerful and friendly Islamic state, this could have global implications.
If you think that Cyprus is just a Cypriot problem you couldn’t be more wrong

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Postby Kifeas » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:42 pm

bakala wrote:.

Kifeas
i don’t think the Cyprus issue is fun or something to be taken less than seriously
The Cyprus issue and its solution has the potential to divide Europe or cement it together. It also has the potential to bring into Europe a powerful and friendly Islamic state, this could have global implications.
If you think that Cyprus is just a Cypriot problem you couldn’t be more wrong

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Then one reason more to approach and treat the issue more seriously! So far this is not so much the impression you give with the way you express most of your views.
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Postby bakala » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:57 pm

Kifeas

At least mate i may disagree with some of the things you say and even though I might think you narrow minded and so “inside “ the problem you cant see all the problem or another persons viewpoint or opinion as of any value.

I would never deny you the right to have an opinion different to mine or decide you were a criminal for not agreeing with me, I would never try to have you thrown out of a debate just because your viewpoint is different to mine

Cyprus is a European and a world problem, and people having their Human rights denied them is my problem just as much as it is yours because if we allow someone to have their human rights denied today and do nothing it could be our turn tomorrow

That’s why the Cyprus problem is of concern to me



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Postby bakala » Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:09 pm

Kifeas

Please tell me how you see Cyprus in ten years time.
then tell me how you would like to see Cyprus in ten years time
then tell me how to acheive the Cyprus you would like to see in ten years time
can what you want, be achieved without displacing more people from their homes or denying more people their human rights ?
i am truly interested in your views and more than interested in your suggestion for a solution



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Postby Kifeas » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:02 pm

bakala wrote:Kifeas

Please tell me how you see Cyprus in ten years time.
then tell me how you would like to see Cyprus in ten years time
then tell me how to acheive the Cyprus you would like to see in ten years time
can what you want, be achieved without displacing more people from their homes or denying more people their human rights ?
i am truly interested in your views and more than interested in your suggestion for a solution
..


Bakala, if you believe or hope that you will ever get me to acknowledge that you should have the right to go to the north of Cyprus, and illegally “buy” the property and/or the house out of which I was forced in 1974 and ever since they were illegally usurped and deprived from me and my family, and then -in a future solution, to also expect me to accept their loss forever, so that your “human rights” will not be violated for been the occupant of this property and /or home, then you are very naïvely arrogant to say the least.

Turkey, by forcing out 200,000 G/Cs (1/3 of the population) in 1974, and by usurping their properties and denying them their rights to exist in their ancestral homelands, homes and properties, she committed a paramount illegality and a serous human rights violation for which it has been contemned by the UN and the ECHR’s. Now, we all understand that there was a number of T/Cs which moved from the south into the north in 1975 (some 50,000) and who also left properties in the south, even though substantially less than what the G/Cs have left in the north (a ratio of 1:6 in terms of value,) and which people out of necessity should have been given some alternative house and or property in the north, in order to make up their living and continue their lives. Unfortunately this was not the case with the vast majority of the G/Cs, simply because of the ratio discrepancy. When it comes to issues affecting such people (T/Cs that relocated into the north,) then yes, we are prepared to make discounts on our own human rights (right to our legally owned properties and homes in the north,) so that they are not victimised and have their own human rights been violated. However, this should have a limit, and the limit is what I just explained to be. We have absolutely no obligation to make the slightest discount on our rights, so that people that where illegally transferred from Turkey (settlers) and were subsequently been illegally given our homes and properties in OUR OWN homeland, or people that came from abroad (UK, elsewhere in Europe, middle east, etc,) and illegally “bought” are homes and properties; should be guaranteed their so called “human rights” that they may claim to have in our own illegally usurped properties and in our own country.

It is your choice to go and illegally “buy” my stolen property in the north, out of which I was illegally expelled in 1974 and for which neither I have given my consent to be sold to anyone, nor I have been asked and /or even been offered any compensation -not that I would have accepted it anyway. However, in doing so you should also know that as long as I breath, me and the rest of my family and children, we will struggle to make you lose that property and perhaps also lose your money. Subsequently, we will never sign any solution which will put your so called “human rights” that you wrongfully believe they derive from your decision to accept to buy stolen goods, above our own legal, legitimate, historical human rights in our homeland. We may accept to concede to it to a certain extent, for our T/C compatriots only, those who have also suffered to an equal extent like we did and also for the sake of reaching a peaceful compromise that will victimise the people of this country to the least possible degree. From then on, absolutely for no one else's interests!
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Postby bakala » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:44 pm

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Kifeas

Not all land in the TRNC belonged to a Greek Cypriot, the Greek plan to kill all the Turkish Cypriots and take over their land didn’t quite work out. A vast portion that did belong to Greek Cypriots has been allocated as exchange land

its quite a simple task to search records and see if a piece of land that once belonged to a greek Cypriot has been given up for a piece of land in the South. If it has, then is it a criminal act to buy it? Or a piece of land that was owned by a Turkish Cypriot
Therefore it is rather a sweeping statement that “Anyone who buys land in the TRNC is a crook “
Your continued accusations that I am a crook of some kind, is also offensive. I have not yet bought any land, North or South of the border. My stated intention to buy land and settle in Cyprus does not in any way indicate the type of land I will buy,

So as usual you are making sweeping statements based on your less than accurate assumptions of guilt. Its no wonder the rest of the world regards you with distrust.


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