Cyprus-Forum.com

[bakala]

A few days ago 1,000 people lived here in the village of Skylloura. Then in a night of terror 350 men, women and children vanished. They were all Turks. ... In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios, a mile away, I counted 16 wrecked and burned homes, they were all Turkish. From this village more than 100 Turks also vanished; in neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek house. (Peter Moorehead, Daily Herald, 1.1.1964)

does peter moorehead sound like a turkish name ?

[Piratis]

i have looked, but the greek version of history doesent start untill 1974 for some reason

Really? So the "Greek version" of history doesn't start until 1974 hah?

No my friend. Greek history on this island starts 3500 years ago and it continues uninterrupted until today. Not like some others that they remember only very tiny selective parts of history that suit their propaganda and forget everything else.

Here is something, not from Greeks but from your American friends (http://lcweb2.loc.gov/)

After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.

I think 1400BC is before 1974 , what do you think?

OK, that has nothing to do with the Turks of course, that were nowhere near our area at that time. So here is the part of history were the Turks came for the first time (again from the American goverment source)

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

So yes, in the intercommunal conflict of 1963-74 some 100s of TCs and GCs had been killed. Yes, there were many criminal GCs and TCs at that time. I have personally never supported the GC criminals that committed crimes against innocent people. For me criminals are criminals no matter were they come from.

However it seems that the Turkish propagandists remember only the tiny part of the history between 1963-1974 (most conflict had ended in 1968 by the way) and the forget the rest of history before and after that.

Why they forget the rest of history and they remember and create propaganda for just a decade? Because during most parts of the rest of history before and after 1963-1974 they were the ones who have unilaterally butchered Greek Cypriots by the thousands, performing ethnic cleansing and other atrocities. And even when it comes to the 1963-74 period they only remember their own casualties.

So bakala, immoral thief of no worth, don't try to justy your illegal immoral actions with redicoulous arguments of the kind "oh, but look how evil the GCs are, I deserve to steal their land because they are so bad".

Your propaganda will fall in the vague, as it was proven by the European Court of Human Rights rulings that reconfirmed for once more that our refugees have the right to return to their homes.

[Kifeas]

A few days ago 1,000 people lived here in the village of Skylloura. Then in a night of terror 350 men, women and children vanished. They were all Turks. ... In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios, a mile away, I counted 16 wrecked and burned homes, they were all Turkish. From this village more than 100 Turks also vanished; in neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek house. (Peter Moorehead, Daily Herald, 1.1.1964)

does peter moorehead sound like a turkish name ?

No bakala, it doesn’t sound like a Turkish name but clearly his reporting on the event is grossly exaggerated and misleading, like most of the reports in the foreign press (mainly the US and the British ones,) of the time. The events of Skylloura- Ayios Vasilios on 24 December 1963, involved the killing of 21 T/Cs only, and not the 350 +100 people that the above particular news reporter claims. Most of the people from those two villages left for the nearby village of Gonyeli or were taken as hostages by G/Cs and were exchanged on the 26 of December 1963 with other G/Cs that were taken hostages by T/Cs. This event was seen as an unfortunate revenge attack for the murder of 8 Greek-Cypriots which was carried out by local Turkish-Cypriots on the 07/06/1958, when they were crossing the field nearby those two villages and Gonyeli, in order to go to their nearby village of Kontemenos.

A most accurate and objective account of those 1963 -1964 events can be found on the website: http://www.cyprus-conflict.net

Below is an extract from the above website, from the research nook of the Canadian scholar Richard A. Patrick, who was an officer in UNFICYP in the late 1960s and pursued his interest in the Cyprus conflict as a doctoral student in political geography at the London School of Economics. This research, published as Political Geography and the Cyprus Conflict, 1963-1971, is considered among the most authoritative accounts of the period. Below is Chapter Three from this classic work.

The period from 21 December 1963 to 10 August 1964 was the most violent phase of the Cypriot conflict. Both communities estimate that several hundred of their members were wounded. In addition, several hundred were kidnapped and temporarily held hostage until exchanges were arranged. Official records show that 191 Turk-Cypriots were known to have been killed and 173 are still missing and now presumed dead. On the Greek-Cypriot side, 133 are known to have been killed and 41 are still missing and presumed dead. It is probable, however, that the figures for Turkish-Cypriot deaths include some who were killed accidentally by their own hand or by other Turk-Cypriots. Greek-Cypriot deaths are probably understated. There are indications that some casualties, for propaganda reasons, were never publicly announced. Also, casualties among Greek Army soldiers in Cyprus are not included in the Cyprus Government's figures. It may be more prudent therefore to accept that approximately 350 Turk-Cypriots were killed in this period while about 200 Greek-Cypriots and mainland Greeks were killed.[5]

If one reads only those reports in the US and British press of the time, they give the exaggerating impression that the T/Cs were getting killed by the thousands during that period, in an organised annihilation campaign /fashion carried out by the G/Cs, while there is no single mention in them that also G/Cs were killed in similar ways, even though in somewhat less numbers, as it shows in the above quotation.

[bakala]

Kifeas

Where the hell do you get the audacity to suggest that one set of reports from a well known and respected foreign correspondent backed up by many other well known and respected foreign correspondents are all exaggerations?

How the hell do you expect anyone to take any of your posts seriously if you always assume that anyone not totally agreeing with your viewpoint is lying or exaggerating?
Is this some kind of disease that seems to afflict only you and Argios and Piratis ?
Is it an illness that’s only symptom is ignorance of the truth despite all proof possible

So herds of the most respected men in Journalism who were eye witnesses to these events made them all up independently of each other or were they in collusion with the British and USA ?

Is it another symptom of this disease you all share that the whole world is lying and conspiring against you?

Ever heard of Psychotic persecution complex?

You need medical help the three of you

[bakala]

The whole purpose of my posts is to suggest that the Turkish landings were a predictable result of the Greek refusal to stop the atrocities
The Turkish landings were justified under the terms of the 1960 agreement

The evidence of one eye witness is not proof enough, but the evidence of so many cannot be ignored,

[bakala]

this is a quote from your own link

: http://www.cyprus-conflict.net

With British troops patrolling cease-fire lines in Nicosia and Larnaca, Greek-Cypriot leaders thought that Turkey would not invade. President Makarios therefore announced on 1 January 1964 that he had unilaterally abrogated the Treaties of Alliance and Guarantee. However, when Sandys made it clear to Makarios that such an abrogation would almost certainly provoke a Turkish invasion, this declaration was quickly changed to a statement of intention to terminate the Treaties by the appropriate means. Subsequently, Sandys persuaded both Cypriot communities, as well as Greece and Turkey, to send representatives to a conference in London, beginning on 15 January, to thrash out the problem.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

Where the hell do you get the audacity to suggest that one set of reports from a well known and respected foreign correspondent backed up by many other well known and respected foreign correspondents are all exaggerations?

How the hell do you expect anyone to take any of your posts seriously if you always assume that anyone not totally agreeing with your viewpoint is lying or exaggerating?
Is this some kind of disease that seems to afflict only you and Argios and Piratis ?
Is it an illness that’s only symptom is ignorance of the truth despite all proof possible

So herds of the most respected men in Journalism who were eye witnesses to these events made them all up independently of each other or were they in collusion with the British and USA ?

Is it another symptom of this disease you all share that the whole world is lying and conspiring against you?

Ever heard of Psychotic persecution complex?

You need medical help the three of you

Well, if you search in all the Turkish propaganda websites with the name of the above researcher, you will find hundreds of quotations from his particular book. The web site I quoted (Cyprus conflict,) which is probably the single most non-biased site on the internet, and which includes extracts publications from many authors on the issue of Cyprus, does say so in relation to the above author. Yes my friend, part of the British and American newspaper reporters of the time did exaggerate severely on those events, simply because there was a reason for this. At the time, the aims of the British and American governments were for a NATO force to be send in Cyprus and take over, instead of a UN, and should the situation would have been presented in the foreign media to be such, this would have given them the facility to exercise pressure on Makarios to concede for a NATO force, instead of a UN force that he was insisting should have been send, because Makarios would trust them since he believed their aim was to cease the opportunity once stationed in Cyprus to promote the partition of the island according to Turkeys wishes. It was the well known method the Anglo-Americans use so that they can exercise pressure and force their way, like so many times they do even nowadays. Remember the way they presented the issue of WMD in Iraq so that they justify their invasion there. In the end it proved to be all propaganda, which aimed at cultivating the climate inside their countries and to the rest of the international community so that it accepts what they had already planed. Therefore, do not say in such a light heart that the media (most of them) cannot be manipulated to serve what their governments want them, because it makes you look funny, to say the least.

Nevertheless, in no case did I suggest that the T/C community did not suffer to a larger extent and degree, during the inter-communal conflict of 1963-64, in comparison to the G/C community, nor it is my intention to down play their suffering. I just say what I find the case to be, because I have also read all those newspaper reports that the Turkish propaganda utilises in their websites and when comparing them with the actual events from UN and other international organisation sources, they are indeed grossly exaggerated. They impression they give to the unaware reader is that some (tens) of thousands of T/Cs were getting murdered on an ongoing and organised annihilation campaigned that involved some tens of different incidents, where in reality it was only perhaps 3-4 incidents in which some 300-400 T/Cs were killed, and another such number of incidents in which also some 200 G/Cs were killed.

All in all, the total number of people that were killed from both communities during the entire period from the end of 1963 up until the middle of 1967, when the last people have been killed as a result of the inter-communal hostilities, are estimated to be the maximum 1200, with about 2/3 been T/Cs and the other 1/3 been G/Cs. From 1967, after the Kofinou events, and up to 1974, until the Turkish invasion begun, there is absolutely no report or mention by either side than any member of its community had been murdered by member of the other community, at least in relation to the inter-communal disputes in Cyprus. From early 1968 and on, the T/Cs were allowed to move freely around Cyprus, and many of them did come out of the enclaves and started working in their old professions, fields and other businesses, and some of them even returned back to their villages that used to live before the events erupted in 1964, without anyone been hurt by any G/C whatsoever. Besides that, the two sides begun intensive negotiations for the purpose of finding an agreed basis on which the T/C community will return back to the RoC institutions, thus we have the bi-communal talks between Denkatsh and Clerides as the representatives of the two communities, and which lasted up until 1974, just before the Turkish invasion, with very good results. The two sides have almost reached an agreement on 95% of their differences. You may find plenty of information on this issue in the website I provided, on:
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/Clerides ... 0%2771.htm

[Kifeas]

this is a quote from your own link

: http://www.cyprus-conflict.net

With British troops patrolling cease-fire lines in Nicosia and Larnaca, Greek-Cypriot leaders thought that Turkey would not invade. President Makarios therefore announced on 1 January 1964 that he had unilaterally abrogated the Treaties of Alliance and Guarantee. However, when Sandys made it clear to Makarios that such an abrogation would almost certainly provoke a Turkish invasion, this declaration was quickly changed to a statement of intention to terminate the Treaties by the appropriate means. Subsequently, Sandys persuaded both Cypriot communities, as well as Greece and Turkey, to send representatives to a conference in London, beginning on 15 January, to thrash out the problem.

And?

[bakala]

and ?
dont you understand that it is a justifiable reason on its own for turkey to land troops even if not a single person had died

[bakala]

even the most sanitised version of those events justified the landings
the intent of the people in power ( not the ordinary greek cypriots ) was to remove by any means the turkish cypriot problem

its already documented that a large proportion of the greek cypriot casualties were greek cypriots who opposed enosis and were killed, the killings were blamed on turjksih Cypriots and this then provided justification for more killings