Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

tcklim, are you Cypriot yourself?

I never copy/paste I simply express my opinion.

We can change the constitution NOW (provided that it is agreed upon by vote and not just by corrupt and inept politicians), we can create our OWN SOLUTION, talk to each other, instead of constantly blaming foreign powers for our problems then insisting they are our only solution, if that isn't idiotic i don't know what is...

You must be kidding us right? Turkey is occupying part of our country. If it was the way you say then why she doesn't remove her troops and let Cypriots decide in a democratic way if they want to change anything.

Maybe we don't want to change anything and what we want is just what was agreed in 1960. Isn't this our right? Why should Turkey occupy part of our country and blackmail us to change our own country to her own liking?

Shouldn't we be allowed not to change anything, or change it the way we want it to change by following democratic procedures (= All Cypriots equal vote without racist discrimination)? Isn't Cyprus our island? What are the 40.000 Turkish troops doing here?

So don't lie to yourself. Turkey will not end the occupation unless we accept the 100% of her outrageous demands.
Cypriots were never allowed to decide in a democratic way the destiny of their own island. This is a simple fact you can not deny.

[tcklim]

Ok hating to quote the enemy over here, but lets accept the reality of the situation here......

Turkey will never just pack up and leave, Do you or do you not want a solution. The one you seem to have in mind will never, ever materialise.... so stop insisting, rights or otherwise, that it happen. It wont. Full Stop. End of story. It will only lead to permanent partition which is where we are heading right now.

The ONLY way to a solution is to understand the othersdies concerns. Both sides have committed crimes, don't start with the they did it more than us scenario.... Let's talk about since independence. I don't care what empires did what to the island eons ago cos it has no bearing now, and everyone recognises that. We're talking about real concerns today. Address those concerns, and lead towards a solution. We will have to comprimise, stop insisting that we won't cos you are permanently dividing the country with this attitude. Stop treating foreigners and TCs like second-hand garbage, it doesn't build trust obviosuly... address the problems on our side, then start blaming the other

[Piratis]

So tcklim, what you are telling us is that since Turkey will not accept legality and the respect of human rights the "solution" is for us to accept the violations of our human, legal and democratic rights. And if we don't accept, it is our fault that a solution is not found.

Sorry but I do not agree with your approach. We are no second class people. Compromises have been made on many levels, but you can not demand from people to compromise even their human and democratic rights.
Something that violates human rights is called a problem, not a solution.

The ONLY way to a solution is to understand the othersdies concerns.

Everybody should respect the human and legal rights of all others. This is an obligation we all have. And we understand the concerns of the other side. What we do not accept are their outrageous demands, things that they have no right for and would result in the violation of our human rights. Unfortunately they insist on illegally occupying our country trying to blackmail us to accept their illegal demands.

I don't care what empires did what to the island eons ago cos it has no bearing now, and everyone recognises that. We're talking about real concerns today.

Eons ago?? I think you got a bit confused. I said that it started eons ago, but unfortunately it continues as we speak. Our refugees today are refused their basic human right of returning to their own homes. Is today "eons ago"?

Stop treating foreigners and TCs like second-hand garbage

??? How exactly did I treat "foreigners and TCs like second-hand garbage"?? Did I say that they are sub-humans that deserve less human rights than all others? Oh, wait, this is what you said about Greek Cypriots!

What I support is human and democratic rights for all in one united country without foreign armies and refugees. Were everybody is an equal Cypriot without racist discriminations. Yes, you can argue that what I ask for will not happen because Turkey will not accept it, but you can not accuse me of treating anybody as "second-hand garbage" when in fact this is what YOU do for Greek Cypriots.

[tcklim]

It's a dream world you're talking about Piratis..... having "legal, human and democratic" rights for all, as you continuously state, will not happen by just writing this in our constitution. It is a sad fact that the South side suffers from very serious discrimination and racism towards non-Greeks. Its been both documented and I myself have observed it countless times. THESE are legitimate concerns so the North justifiably want safeguards.

No matter which way you spin it, the invasion was partly the souths responsability as well due to their actions AT THE TIME.

There will never be a united country with the mentality you're talking about. If you want to be real, then that's the truth. You constantly swear at the Turks in your threads and call them barbarians and what-not and then try act all peace-loving. You do not build trust you only build hate, as does the policies implemented now in general. We throw a hissyfit every second we can over the most idiotic things. Mr. Clarks visit for example was a complete embarassement to the country.... not his presence, but Paps unprecedented and stupid reaction. This guy is leading us to a hole we will never be able to escape.

They are outrageous demands because the GCs wont even TALK to the TCs. How do you want to address these may I ask? Foreign powers or not GC's played a part in forming the constitution and they played a part in drafting the Annan plan.

You are blinded and there is no talking to you, I've met similarly minded people all over Limassol and I have absolutely no hope for the future as do many more balanced Cypriots. And notice i say Cypriots, not Greek, not Turkish.... Cypriot, from Cyprus, and that's all.

[Piratis]

tcklim, it is a fact that racists that excuse and support human rights violations exist in all countries, a good example is you. The effort should definitely be to push these racists in the corner and with democratic procedures refuse any power to them.

Unfortunately in Turkey these racists are the ones who rule the country and have performed ethnic cleansing in Cyprus in violation of international law and human rights.

You constantly swear at the Turks in your threads and call them barbarians and what-not and then try act all peace-loving. You do not build trust you only build hate, as does the policies implemented now in general.

I did not swear at any group as a whole. It is a fact that I called those Turks that have committed horrific acts as Barbarians. How would you call the Ottoman Turks than when they first set their foot on Cyprus had massacred 20,000 people in Nicosia alone? How would you call the Turkish army who had killed 6000 people, raped underage girls and ethnically cleansed 200.000 people in 1974? Aren't these barbarians? Why do you defend them? Have you seen me ever defending the acts of Junta, EOKA-B or any other Greek or Greek Cypriot criminal barbarians?

A prerequisite for trust is the respect we are all obligated to show even to strangers. Respect comes first, trust, friendship, love etc come after.
Aren't we excused to feel anger, and express it, for those that violate our human rights? Are we supposed to pretend that the human rights violations against us are ok?
So yes, their is anger (not hate), but still we are more than willing to let the past behind and forgive Turkey if they finally accept that Cyprus belongs to Cypriots and no part of it belongs to them.

They are outrageous demands because the GCs wont even TALK to the TCs.

Read some history my friend. You will find rounds after rounds of talks that led to nothing. Turks never accepted that the solution should be the one that will not violate our human and democratic rights.

You are blinded and there is no talking to you, I've met similarly minded people all over Limassol and I have absolutely no hope for the future as do many more balanced Cypriots.

And what is "balanced" according to you? The violation of the human rights of Greek Cypriots for the profit of Turkey and Turkish Cypriots?

why am I blinded? What do I not see? You admitted yourself that Turkey is not willing to respect our human rights. So I can perfectly see this and I will not accept any kind of "solution" that will legalize our human rights violations against us.

[tcklim]

You call me racist when I have never ever denounced an entire civilization as you have just done. My friend what is wrong with you? Have you no sense? Do you really believe that the solution for the Cyprus problem is for Turkey to leave tomorrow? Does your brain not realize this will lead to sudden total anarchy and the sudden re-oppression of the TC's.

Respect is needed, yes, but that is lacking on both sides. Your de-emphasis of trust as a crucial ingredient is ignorant.

The laws you state of preventing racists from gaining power are clearly useless, seeing as the immigration authorities of the RoC are the most racist people I've ever had the misfortune to meet.

Tell me, oh wise one, do you really honestly and truly believe you will reach a solution whereby one day Turkey will up and leave? That's it?

[etnies]

tcklim

My bad for making it sound all to easy, cause your right its not.

However when I visited Cyprus, I went over on the occupied side it was very ran down. The land its self was very beautiful, however it seemed like a ghetto. You can't be telling me that the occupied sides economy is booming, through all of these things cause it such didn't look that that way.

How does turkey expect to get into the EU when it is holding another Countries Land?

[etnies]

THE ENTIRE WORLD LOOKS DOWN UPON WHAT TURKEY HAS DONE! the whole world!!! thats a very lage population of people who strongly believe that what tukey has done is revolting!

[MR-from-NG]

However when I visited Cyprus, I went over on the occupied side it was very ran down. The land its self was very beautiful, however it seemed like a ghetto

What a load of CRAP. You mate are talking straight out of your poohole.

[tcklim]

?? I never said anything about the Norths economy booming.... of course it's not.

I do not condone the occupation, I only talk about our situation now. Both sides have to understand each others concerns, but one-minded and simplistic ideas as expressed here will never lead to anything.

Could you please cite your sources for your last statement concerning that. While the invasion was looked down upon, the sentiment of opinion around the world has largely turned around against the GCs not for them. More countries are hinting that unless things change and we stop blocking peace talks and start making an effort, then the TRNC will eventually become recognized. Preaching hatred against Turkey and TCs and what-not will only solidify that outcome.

The partition of Cyprus rests in the Cypriots hands, sadly, they don't even know it.