Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

The views of Greek and Turkish Cypriots seem very far apart. Negotiations did not produce any results all these years. HOW will we find this magical agreed solution? When mediation fails maybe courts should come next?

[andri_cy]

court decisions can be made but no one can guarantee the parties will obery. Its like getting a restraining order. It says one person cant go near another within this much distance. But that doesnt actually protect you cause a lot of people disobey them. So who knows. court might be a bad idea also. Might start a war...

[cypezokyli]

courts cannot give a solution to the cyppro.
who gave you that idea ?

certain courts can deal with individual cases of violations of human rights. NO court can give a solution to the cyppro. NO court has such responsibility.

solution will only be found if we sit on the negotiating table.

[Piratis]

solution will only be found if we sit on the negotiating table.

If that was the case then the Cyprus problem would have been solved long long time ago. 32 years, 5 different presidents with different policies, rounds after rounds of negotiations produced absolutely nothing.

The Cyprus problem will not be solved in the courts but it is now obvious it will not be solved with negotiations, with the current balance of power, either.

The weakening of Turkey to the degree that will create a more "balanced" balance of power is a required prerequisite for a fair solution.

This of course can not happen over night. Therefore our policies should not be for the short term, but for the long term.

Meanwhile we should make sure that those that insist and support the illegalities will also lose more than what they would if they accepted a fair solution.

Before you tell me the cliche that "time is against us" I will have to remind you that the Turks, within days, have uprooted 200.000 people that have lived in those areas for thousands of years. So time is important, but not as important as the balance of power.

[cypezokyli]

while waiting for the balance of power to change is not a clische
not to mention unlikely, in the near future... but since time is not working against us... well...

[MR-from-NG]

Before you tell me the cliche that "time is against us" I will have to remind you that the Turks, within days, have uprooted 200.000 people that have lived in those areas for thousands of years. So time is important, but not as important as the balance of power.

Piratis,

Are you saying war is the answer to the Cypro? Please elaborate.

[Tony-4497]

certain courts can deal with individual cases of violations of human rights.

I was under the impression that the Republic has brought intra-state actions against Turkey at the international court (in the Hague, I think) which repeatedly convicted Turkey and ordered her to remove her troops. I believe the 4th intra-state court decision was the most recent and strongest.

However, as someone pointed out, the problem is that these courts do not have the means to implement their decisions.

The only way in which Turkey may be forced to accept a fair solution in Cyprus in the foreseeable future (i.e. our lifetimes) is its EU accession process.

Turkey will certainly be forced to make a choice between EU entry and keeping occupied Cyprus in its current form i.e. a Turkey province. I believe Turkey will choose the former.

[Piratis]

while waiting for the balance of power to change is not a clische
not to mention unlikely, in the near future... but since time is not working against us... well...

I am not talking about the near future. This is why I said that we should plan for the long term.

Piratis,

Are you saying war is the answer to the Cypro? Please elaborate.

I said many times what the ideal solution is one united democratic Cyprus with respect to the human rights of all Cypriots without racist discriminations.

However it seems that this is something unacceptable for the Turkish side. So if this ideal "win-win" solution does not exist and somebody has to be the winner and somebody has to be the loser, then I hope you understand that we will not just sit and accept to be the losers.

[cypezokyli]

certain courts can deal with individual cases of violations of human rights.

I was under the impression that the Republic has brought intra-state actions against Turkey at the international court (in the Hague, I think) which repeatedly convicted Turkey and ordered her to remove her troops. I believe the 4th intra-state court decision was the most recent and strongest.

However, as someone pointed out, the problem is that these courts do not have the means to implement their decisions.

The only way in which Turkey may be forced to accept a fair solution in Cyprus in the foreseeable future (i.e. our lifetimes) is its EU accession process.

Turkey will certainly be forced to make a choice between EU entry and keeping occupied Cyprus in its current form i.e. a Turkey province. I believe Turkey will choose the former.

true, you are right. perhaps "deal" was a wrond word.
the difference betwenn ECHR and ICJ , is huge. in the ECHR (where you get individual cases) you dont need the concent of both parties. moreoever the ECHR has achieved an enforcement rate of arounf 90% which is unique for an international court. bc accepting the rulings of am international court means redduction in state sovereighnty.

the ICJ to accept a case it first needs that both parties agree.

Jurisdiction ratione personae is not, however, in itself enough. A fundamental principle governing the settlement of international disputes is that the jurisdiction of an international tribunal depends in the last resort on the consent of the States concerned. Accordingly, no sovereign State can be made a party in proceedings before the Court unless it has in some manner or other consented thereto. It must have agreed that the dispute or the class of disputes in question should be dealt with by the Court.

i am not arguing that these cases that we won are not important.
but at the same time we should not overestimate their importance. bc firstly as you say they cannot implement their decisions.
second, as past experience has showed, the UN (it was according to the UN charter that the ICJ was created) does not necessarily take into consideration those decisions!!

as a concequence , it is only negotiations that can bring us a solution, aceepted by the majority of both communities.

[tcklim]

Cyprus will never ever be at war again, for the simple reason that the RoC will lose in under 5 minutes. Some people in Cy, in some weird way, fail to realise this simple fact. Piratis knows everything the TCs think and is the ultimate wise-man on the Cyprus problem with his democratic ways. Personally, I find the poison he spews as ruining a forum that is meant to foster peace, and for that reason (since he infects every post he comes across) i will move to another.

Pc